What if..?

I´ve always wondered what would happen if Karl XII never would have died? Would the Swedish Empire still exist? Would it have fallen anyway? Would the Finns be hearing Swedish voices in the radio right about now? Sure, it fell for 315 years ago, but how long do you think it would have lasted?

Whats your opinion?

...We like, so have a history forum now. This is just too cool.

Anyway, lonely, i don't think it would have lasted. Every empire falls and when you have one that consists of several groups that despite alot of similarities, have a nationalistic sense of being different, it's doomed to fail. I think both Norwegians and Finns during their time of swedish rule felt a sense of being oppressed a bit by Sweden and wanted to assert their differences more even though culturally you're so similar. I think today it might be feasable to initiate a Nordic union, which would make a heck of alot more since than the broader European union.
I'll be amazed if the EU lasts. Sure Europeans have so much more in common with each other than with amis, africans and asians. But there's still enough differences between nations that anyone with their own agenda could easily drive a wedge into the union and break it apart. I think it would have made more since to have several smaller EU's than one large one.
Ex. You could have a union consisting of the Scandinavian/Nordic countries, one for the eastern block, one for southern Europe and one for the other northern/western countries.

Your theory sounds.
Smaller fractions of the EU would be better, fractions with politically common interests and perhaps similar culture. Nordic Union, Eastern Euro Union etc. UK, France and Germany should be on their own, since they pretty much decide everything in the EU anyways and they can take care of themselves.

[thule]

It may have lasted a bit longer but I don't think it would still have existed today. Tzar Peter saw our areas around St: Petersburg with hungry eyes and he started to build the city while the war was still raging so had we prevailed in Norway we would still have to deal with Peter with a weakened army and he was not about to lose his brand new city. But on the other hand old Charlie Dozen never took sh*t from noone, so you never know.

Sweden would have been bigger today though if somebody hadn't made a major f*ck up in the war against Russia in 1805.


/Alex

[Petabyte]

Originally posted by thule

Sweden would have been bigger today though if somebody hadn't made a major f*ck up in the war against Russia in 1805.

Do you refer to the Turks?

In the past, Denmark was the most powerful nordic country for such a long time until Sweden pummeled them and became the Nordic power. From the little i've read it doesn't seem like the others were ever quite that powerful.
So which nordic country today do you honestly think is the most powerful?
Finland seems to dominate in the technology industry, Sweden holds it's own, while Norway is considered to have the highest standard of living. But I haven't really heard much at all about Iceland and it seems like Denmark comes off as alot more conservative than all the others.

And if there were a new nordic union created do you think the friendly rivalry might escalate into a more heated rivalry because of the little differences since it'd be just 'you against each other' instead of you all and your common cultural heritage against the rest of europe in which case you might be more likely to stick together against 'those other euros that aren't like us'.

[Petabyte]

Originally posted by artichoke

I think it would have made more since to have several smaller EU's than one large one.
Ex. You could have a union consisting of the Scandinavian/Nordic countries, one for the eastern block, one for southern Europe and one for the other northern/western countries.

Yes I think that is a good idea to.

[Petabyte]

Originally posted by artichoke
In the past, Denmark was the most powerful nordic country for such a long time until Sweden pummeled them and became the Nordic power. From the little i've read it doesn't seem like the others were ever quite that powerful.
So which nordic country today do you honestly think is the most powerful?
Finland seems to dominate in the technology industry, Sweden holds it's own, while Norway is considered to have the highest standard of living. But I haven't really heard much at all about Iceland and it seems like Denmark comes off as alot more conservative than all the others.

And if there were a new nordic union created do you think the friendly rivalry might escalate into a more heated rivalry because of the little differences since it'd be just 'you against each other' instead of you all and your common cultural heritage against the rest of europe in which case you might be more likely to stick together against 'those other euros that aren't like us'.

Well I dont really think there is one stronger country and that about technology Sweden is stronger then Finland. You are just refering to the cell phones. But if there are a strong country it is probebly Sweden or Norway.

Originally posted by artichoke
In the past, Denmark was the most powerful nordic country for such a long time until Sweden pummeled them and became the Nordic power. From the little i've read it doesn't seem like the others were ever quite that powerful.
So which nordic country today do you honestly think is the most powerful?
Finland seems to dominate in the technology industry, Sweden holds it's own, while Norway is considered to have the highest standard of living. But I haven't really heard much at all about Iceland and it seems like Denmark comes off as alot more conservative than all the others.

And if there were a new nordic union created do you think the friendly rivalry might escalate into a more heated rivalry because of the little differences since it'd be just 'you against each other' instead of you all and your common cultural heritage against the rest of europe in which case you might be more likely to stick together against 'those other euros that aren't like us'.

Sweden & Denmark was the only powerful Nordic countries at that time, although Sweden won 10 wars out of 12 with the Danes.
You can say that Denmark and Sweden was fighting for "custody" over the "child", Norway. The most powerful nordic country today, is Sweden, then I´d say Norway, Denmark and least, Finland. Sweden dominates in the technology industry, no doubt, and the only technology that Finland is good at, I think, is cellphones. That, and their IFV´s. ( Patria infantry fighting vehicles. )

[Marmaduke]

Please keep this up..it is fascinating as a non-Swede...thank God they got rid of business and replaced it with history- keep it up and well done to you all, this is a real and valuable education !

Iceland also has one of the highest standards of living in the world. And they were under Denmark's thumb for a long time, too, huh? I'd say Sweden is the most powerful Nordic country now, but Norway is the best.

Wouldnt it be sweet if Sweden never had lost Finland?
We would be a 787,000 square kilometer country. The largest country in Europe, if my math is correct. I wonder how powerful we would be. Hmm.

[kittyd]

this is a truly fascinating topic.

does anyone know if denmark has some sort of special arrangement with iceland? it seems the only way to get to greenland, which is still under danish rule i believe, is through reykjavik and there seem to be more people from iceland living in greenland than danes.

I´ve always wondered, is Greenland REALLY Danish ruled? If so, then why?

I´ll have to go now, my sister and her new boyfriend is paying a visist. See ya.

Denmark colonized it, and it is still part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but it was granted self-government in 1978. Denmark still controls its foreign affairs. I haven't heard of a special arrangement with Iceland, though. I guess Icelanders go over there cuz it's close by, and both have the ties to Denmark.