The real face of "Sverigedemokraterna"?

[Al-Martinez]

By the way if your not a nazi what's with the boots?

[thule]

You have said before that you're not a nazi, so I'm implying that far right wingers have been brainwashed, thus you have to determine if it applies to you.

Just out of curiousity, do you think the same is true for far left-wingers?

Now, no offense but I'm not interested in anybody's definition of a nazi. Talking about this kind of matter really exhaust me, nationalisms, mild or not are a waste of time.

The saftey of my country and my fellow swedes matters a great deal to me. That is why i'm a nationalist. Never will I take a nihilistic standpoint when it comes to that.

If you were to wipe out all of humanity and leave Uppsala standing, the Svenssons will still fight the Johanssons.

I'm not old really old enough to know, but I have never heard of any serious internal disputes in Sweden prior to when immigration started more seriously in the 60's and 70's.

It's tribal warfare taken to a "modern" order. If nationalists ever proved some validity to their claims, I'll become one I'm all for truth. The thing is that by nature nationalisms are exclusive (Meaning warfare with those that do not suscribe to your clan) this idea of mild nationalisms is unreal because it will degenerate in extremism. And you can leave race out of this one.

You're right. It is a kind of tribal warfare. Except Sweden belongs to my tribe, and not theirs. We have saved their lives by letting them stay here and they repay us with blood.

By the way if your not a nazi what's with the boots?

In my younger days I used to be a skinhead. And before you go ape-sh!t about it let me just tell you that there are several kinds of skinheads.

I am not a nazi. I dislike both nationalsocialism and communism because I don't like the idea of some sort of elite doing my thinking for me. That alreday happens to a lesser degree today in our "demokratur" so I wouldn't want it to happen in a higher degree.

/Alex

[Edited by thule on 4th December 2001 at 19:52]

Hej thule!

Some debate going on here.. don't you just hate it when people pressume your position and make second guessess on things you say (ie. reading between the lines..) ?

Peace everyone.

adjö

[Al-Martinez]

Just really quick and I'll swear I'll go tot the sports thread. Because I really rest my case.

I won't go ape nuts on you, because you were a Skinhead,
I hate nobody man.

"Just out of curiousity, do you think the same is true for far left-wingers?"

Hell yes.- far anything entails severe missconceptions because no current ideology holds the "truth". Most countries have been presented with the option left, center or right. Assuming there aren't alternative ideologies.
And do not associate alternative with Pearl-Jam or grass smoking politicians. Long debate about this one, you'll figure it out for yourself.


"I'm not old really old enough to know, but I have never heard of any serious internal disputes in Sweden prior to when immigration started more seriously in the 60's and 70's".

I'm not old enough either, but history is there for a reason. And the fact that there weren't anu quarrels in Sweden in whatever decade, is because Sweden as a nation was a part of a grander scheme that did come to conflict, capitalism VS communism. Which bring us back to the Svenssons vs the JOhanssons analogy.

So you want to keep Sweden as it is (or as it was), and you worry about it's safety, well being.......Fair enough.

Just remember this when executing your grand plan.

--Tough Immigration laws does not mean less immigrants--

And why does Sweden have to be responsible? Because going back to the West´s operations safeguarding private interests. The West has invented missery in order to have wealth. (Long debate)

So you want to keep other races in their countries, eliminate missery, give the people the chance to stay there.
In general Immigrants don't go to North america or don't come to Europe because they want to be Swedes or German or whatever. It's prosecution and poverety that's the root of all the world's evils

PeACE

aL

[bosse_s]

A friend that is somewhat of a amateur historian once told me that nationality have not been of any good from an historical viewpoint. I think that what he meant is that it sooner or later leads to conflict. (In a small country like Sweden, I guess it could lead to inbreeding too!!!)

Sometimes when listening to people like Alex i wonder what they are protecting. Sweden is a large country, some 2000km from North to south. We have the sami living far up north not even talking the same language like us. We have the silent and slow "Norrlänningar" and the people of in the south (Scania) who more share their culture with the Danes and the Germans than the Norrlänningar. This country is so big, that it holds many different cultures and ethnical backgrounds within what I think the nationalists calls the "Swedish culture". If a Norrlänning and a man from Scania would meet and discuss their patriotic feelings, what would they have in common (apart from their disliking of immigrants from outside Europe)? Some silly historical happenings that made us "greater than others"? That is what the nationalists in former Jugoslavia are trying to get a companionship out of...


Do not get me wrong Alex. You know that I am Swedish and I am interested in both Swedish history and Scanidinavian mythology. Darn, I even like SKA! But going from that to calling my self nationalistic would be an Atlantic crossing to me.

I think that Sverigedemokraterna/Nationaldemokraterna stands for hypocracy, rasism and a nationalism that would only lead us to something that I would not even identify myself with as a "natural born Swede." The articles of Expressen proved at least to me that even if I called my self a patriot and nationalist, I would start to think about what sort of moral and values I stood for.

Personally, I think they suck. Real bad.

[Edited by bosse_s on 5th December 2001 at 10:24]

[thule]

You're right Bosse, we do have several cultures in Sweden - I don't know if cultures is the right word, but i'll use it in lack of a better one. However there are no conflicts between all those cultures in Sweden. I think one reason for this is because norrlänningar stay in Norrland and people from Skåne stays there. And even if people from Norrland started moving south, I think they are similiar enough to the rest of the country so that no culturual conflicts would ever happen.
Personally I can't stand surströmming. But I doubt that'll get me banned in any areas of Sweden.

I have to admit that lately i've had to reconsider my opinions about Sverigedemokraterna. Most of all because of their obvious hypocracy. Nationaldemokraterna on the other hand has so far made themselves a good candidate for my vote in next years election. Even if several members of that party are hateful of immigrants - well can you really blame them?

/Alex

[bosse_s]

I would defintely blame them.

[thule]

Well, I can't, for reasons that are all too obvious in todays society.


/Alex



[Edited by thule on 7th December 2001 at 08:33]

[bosse_s]

Uhu, and you still would not call these persons (or yourself) rasist?

[thule]

Racism:Belief that different human races has different values and should be treated differently (especially about the person's own race's superiority) and says that racialmixing is evil.

That's what it says racism means in my dictionary. But if hating immigrants for what they have done makes me a racist, then I guess I am one.


/Alex

[bosse_s]

First you say that it is hard to blame those of the candidates who hates immigrants (the group) and then you say that it is not rasism because it is judged upon what individuals (immigrants) have done.

What is the logical consequence of this? It must be that you are seriously claiming that ALL immigrants (from outside Europe offcourse!) have done something that makes them "hate-able"

Maybe you are not a rasist, Alex. But it sounds like you are defending the arguments of those who are.

[thule]

Bosse, I think some immigrant groups should be banned from entering the country. More specifically the immigrant groups where a high percentage commit crimes. If the individuals who commit the crimes comes from a group where many do commit crimes, I think it can be considered a group problem. Basically i'm saying that the individual must take responsibility for his actions. But if the group or culture he comes from is a major contributing factor to that individual committing the crime, then why not judge the group as well.


/Alex

[bosse_s]

... that is exactly what makes the so called patriots in Sverigedomkraterna hypoctates! Many are obiously hard working criminals and live on social wellfare themselves? What makes them different from those they are trying to crack down on? Is not criminality a "group problem" within the patriots? Especially when it is shown that the level of convicted persons is higher in the population of "Sverigedemokrater" than in the group "immigrants"?!

Just trying to understand the logic...

[blondiebabe]

It's funny that sverigedemokraterna and skinheads have a man like Hitler as rolemodel, especially since they hate gay people and Hitler was gay. Just read this book:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,95412,00.html

I find it real hard to believe anyone in their right mind would idolize such a person and still claim that homosexuality is wrong. I think it's up to each individual what they want to do with their lives, but I also find it quite weird to hear how bad these groups think foreigners are and homosexuals are, when they look up to a homosexual foreigner themselves.

[thule]

I won't argue the fact that you think Sverigedemokraterna are a bunch of hypocryts, because I think you're right about them. At first - when Expressen's article first came out - I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but since they have not even bothered to respond to the article I say to hell with them.


/Alex