Turkish treatment of minorities

[hellfire]

This is what they did to the Armenians 90 years ago.


And this is what they are doing right now to the Kurds.


Nothing has changed!!

[CengizHan]

Its easy to post pictures up.The first picture could be from the jewish holocaust for all we know.Turkey has similar pictures claiming Turks were killed,so if i post the pictures up, are you going to believe them!!Pictures arent a good historical source in proving genocides, because there is no certain way you can know when and where the picture was taken,unless you can recognize the individuals.

So, you anti-Turk,propagandist scum what is it you want?Lands from Turks.NEVER.

[Phantom]

I didn't realize that German army during WWII wore fez hats.

[kotu_kedi]

Oh did you say Armenian genocide? Man, it's the biggest scam of the century.

Speaking of the pictures that "absolutely prove" a genocide, one might be interested in the following excerpt from Hattushil's post in Turkey.com discussion forum:

Photographs of Human Skulls - A Distortion
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For several decades various Armenian publications have featured a photograph of a pyramid of human skulls which they alleged belonged to Armenian victims of Turkish massacres during the First World War. In most cases the date of 1915 - 1917 was explicitly stated in the legend underneath.
It has been published on the cover of a book with the Ottoman Minister of the Interior Talat Pasha's photograph inserted on the upper left corner, announcing in the inner pages that the cover photograph shows "Turkish barbarism". The same photograph was enlarged and shown to the Canadian public in the 1970's, in the Yerevan Pavillion at the annual Metro International Caravan festivities in Toronto, as proof of "Armenian genocide".
In reality, this was a photograph of a painting entitled "The Apotheosis of War", created in 1872 by a Russian master called Vassili Vereshchagin (1842-1904), which hangs in the Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow. The canvas, the subject of which has got nothing to do with the Armenians, was painted 43 years before the alleged massacres. It was used fraudulently and freely by the Armenians, as a tool to deceive and convince the public into believing their unfounded allegations about a "so-called genocide".
The purpose of this deceitful manipulation was to create a false impression in the minds of those who observe the photo arrangements. It was designed to insult the Turkish people while serving the political objectives of Armenian activists.


This is just one of the deceptions, misinformations, and disinfromations in the Armenian genocide allegations. For more take a look at the two links below

You can check out Turkey.com discussion forum. Phantom is already a guest of ours, and a discussion is being carried on. Or we can open up a new one here .

Here are the current discussions there, you might wanna read it:

http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthr...threadid=12356
http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthr...threadid=12364


Phantom my friend, what is up with that Swedish non-recognition of the alleged genocide? Did you read the conclusion of the article you pasted? What do you think?


Dang, I am new on this Belgium forum, so don't have the signature. Assume that there's a cute fluffy kitty picture here.



[Edited by kotu_kedi on 28th April 2003 at 07:57]

[kotu_kedi]

Oh come on , it's just a picture, don;t write stories on it. We don;t know if they are Armenians. We don't know if they were innocent cute civilians massacred, or bloody murderers brought to justice. We don't know if the live ones in the picture are bandits or soldiers. If they are soldiers, we don't know if they were authorized to decapitate people. We know NOTHING, don't write any stories.

Any you never know, it might be a PAINTING indeed! Tomorrow, while you are walking in a museum, you may see the same thing, and you will go "oh my gosh I saw this painting before, where did I see, where did I see..." .

[hellotoyou]

Anyone reading Kotu, should read a destruction of his claims here.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...&lp=1056818693

Kotu loged in an Armenian board as Knight of Armenia, and his claims were destroyed one by one. Read the lies he brough there, and how he was exposed.



So Kotu, how can we know those were civilians or Armenians? Actually, the pictures of Armenian deaths orginate from sources that are more credible than the pictures taken and presented during the Nuremberg tribunal. Most of the pictures were taken by German soldiers or various German army graded men. Germany being Ottoman ally had no reason to claim those pictures being Armenian.

Beside that, you bring this painting again and again, when there is no any studies made by any Armenian historians that refer to this painting.

It is said, the less you have, the more you expend, you just have this painting as evidences to claim those pictures as being face. The majority of the mass deaths comes from location that Armenians were sent, it was not the Turks that were sent in the desert, but the Armenians, so any Germany taken pictures, with notes of the desert location, with indication "Armenian deaths" are in fact undeniable evidences.

I have in my possession pictures that you have never seen on the Internet, of concentration camps from the desert, and if they are not evidences and are forgeries, than from your standard, those taped and used during the Nurember are as well.


Again, any Turks that is read to challenge me, can come to my forum.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/255190

Still from the day I challenged, no Turks accepted the challenge, by finding pathetic excuses.

[politics_student]

You invited anyone to challange u to your form,I think photos u are showing seem like a photo montage,especially this new photo is very clear that it's a photo montage.sorry but Turks don't have so much time to respond a SALAK Armenian.Your history is full of lies!!and especially we don't interest us with your cries.Inga Ingaaa )) Continue to cry in America.PÝSLÝKLER

[hellotoyou]

If you are so sure of your claim, why not come on my forum and prove your allegation ?

Oh, I see, you are like the rest of the other Turkish denialists, post trash after trash, trying to make buy your lies to people that will buy them easily, but when someone that knows of what he is talking about proposes a fair challenge, you find reasons to not accept it... Oh, the guy has not time, but the guy, like other idiot denialists, has time to post trashes after trashes of denialist materials.

For those that don<t understand of what he is talking about(pictures), this guy gave this answer few minutes after I posted those on that board.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/...&lp=1057101550

Those Turks don<t have better thing to do than following me 24/24, on all my Internet activities.

[politics_student]

Look idiot Armenian why don't you try to bit work a bit your brain!!!You know you support Kurds but in this deportation of Armenians who have killed your ****ing idiot ancestors were the poor Kurds of the region(they admit this)and also maybe some poor Turks of the region.What is your ****ing Forum then?? I have to go now

[politics_student]

If u have had brain you will look to future and won't stuck in 1915!!There are also Turks who died in 1915 bvecause of Armenian colloboration with Russians killing Turks in the region of Kars.What Follow you!!We don't have any other way as to follow you??you say. you are mistaken !!!You think you know very lot!!but I am also graduated from the department of international politics and can combat with u!You will follow me Mr!!

[hellotoyou]

Dear, and other reader, you understand now why the Armenians are so angry. Not only have they exterminated, not only their republic is build on the extermination of a people, not only disgustingly deny it, but they even call my "encestos" "idiot" and other words that are filtered... and revert to role of the victims and aggressors, picturing the aggressor as victims.

So, you are graduate of International Politic, why don't you come at my board big boy, and accept my challenge ? Idiots like you I have faced many, I have returned them in their place, and that is why Turkey.com banned me from there(typical Turkish society killing of Freedom of speech).

As for the Kurds, your encestors promessed them to give the Kurds every lands stoled from the Armenians, they left them do the durty job, and than they took that away from the Kurds, and later the Kemalists in the order of the war criminal and genocidal individual, Kemal Ataturk, that is considered as a national hero, "The Father of the Turks" deported those Kurds to the West, by specifically chosing winter to do that, to be sure that few survive in this deportation.

---------


So I am stuck into the past ? Well, actually you are attacking your own pseu-argument here, your people doesn'accept the past, it is impossible for a people to move to the future, when still they deny their own past. I recognised my past, not you, you are the disgusting denier that has no any moral value, denying the eradication of a people, like the majority of your countrymen. I am afraid that it takes more than "no death penality"in order to be a member of the EU.

[politics_student]

Look men speak only for me you can say everything to me but not to my people and not to my leader'Atatürk' I am ateist I don't believe in ****ing god but I believe in my country and in my nation and he is the constructor of Turkish Republic.If as a Turkish women I can go to university,can have a job like other men can dress how I want I am thankful to him otherwise Turkey would be like Ýran or Saudi Arabia where women aren't counted as human beings.So idiot don't speak about a leader whom u don't know well.
Do u have ever met with a Turk who have lived this Armenian massacres agaisnt themselves with the colloboration of Russians at this time.U must know it at this time Russia was promising most of the regions to armenians like kars, artvin, van, etc.and Armenians began to fight against Turks.Deportation was decided for that reason.and why are you referring to ASALA or the previous terrorist armenian organizatioýns like taþnak and etc during the ottoman era.ASALA has killed many Turkish diplomats in 1980s.Are then Armenians aren't terrorist!!
Why re u always putting this ****ing embesil EU THAT ý HATE VERY DEEPLY in discussion what relationship has it with our theme!!If u ask my opinion I am very sad because Turkey have banned death penalty look its death penalty also in US and it should be also in Turkey!!After the banning of death penalty guilties began to rise in Turkey!!and u should know this Turkey has a discussion page covering many subjects there are for example a lot of Greeks there saying what they want!!but if I enter Greece.com there is not something like that!!even a very moderate comment I mailed to a greek newspaper was not published on the page.
Don't cry ok don't cry!like small children.There are today some living old Turkish people who lived this Armenian massacre at that time but they don't cry BECAUSE WE ARE A HONOROUBLE PEOPLE WE DON'T KNOW TO CRY AT THE DOORS OF OTHERS!WE FORGÝVE VERY QUÝCKLY!
We know our past and we don't like what Ottomans have done in most respects but I don't believe that Armenians were innocent.IN LÝFE EVERY ACTÝON FÝNDS ÝTS RESPONSE.
WHY SHOULD I COME TO YOUR FEET!!U SHOULD COME HERE IF U WANT TO DISCUSS!!

[hellotoyou]

We can see here how kind of fullhated individual you are. No wonder Ataturk is considered a national hero.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB10.1.GIF

Which the regime killed 878 thousand people, the same murderious individual which ordered the deportation of the Kurds on Winter, the same murderious individual that purged the rest of the Armenians left, from which 80 % were aging less than 12 years old. This is the disgusting individual considered as a national her, the "Father of the Turks," Why not Hitler ? Afterall he is as well considered as a Great man by some. This idiot and murderer, genocidal criminals compagnon of arm planned the destruction of the rest of the Armenians, and used the looted money for the construction of your republic. Without the eradication of the Armenians, you would never have your republic, every fondation of your republic is build on the destruction of the Armenians, from the bottom to the top, the land stolen, the people eradicated, even the reachest families from Turkey, what they posses comes from what was looted to the Armenians, your Kemalists pied the war depts from the money retransfered from germany, a money that was closed in german banks by the Ittihadists, money that was looted from the Armenians. Not only your encestoes took the land, not only they have eradicated, not only the construction of the Turkish republic has been made possible by the money of the exterminate, but as unmoral, as disgustfull as unhuman as it could be, they EVEN deny the genocide. Is that the most disgusting ? No ! Wait a minute, there is even more disgusting than that, THEY EVEN REVERT the role of the victims and the aggressors, they even justify the erdication, they even JUSTIFY, the mass burning, mass drowning, mass injection, gasing, mass starvation, mass killing etc...

THEY EVEN HAVE THE FACE ! To deny it. Can someone IMAGINE something more disgusting than that ? And they still want to be considered as a possible member of the EU ? Hold on, that must be a compleat total joke.

So, this criminal that you call the father of the Turks gave your country ? NOPE ! What gave your republic is the extermination of my people, this is what gave your republic, as for Iran, Iran gives more right to its Kurdish population than Turkey never in its existance gave. Before 1991, talking Kurdish was even ILLEGAL. Maybe it is time for you to tell yourself that you slept a little longer than the average underdevlopped countries in what concerns human right, and start acting like moral people, and JUST ADMIT.

Have I talked to those Turks ? Actually NOPE ! My grandparents were survivers, like the majority of the grandparents in the diaspora. Have you asked to anyone of them what happened to their parents when they were orphaned ? So some Turks have stories of brutality ? The large majority of our grandparents comming from the Ottoman Empire, were survivers, having lost their parents, their brothers, their sisters, burned raped, killed, poisoned, left to starve, drowned just in fron of them.

As for your stories, yes sure... sorry but I won't believe those stories of people that lives on the houses of the exterminated, the houses given to them, that says how the Armenians did this or that, and where the majority say how this person or that person was killed by the Armenians, but VERY VERY few will tell you they have lost their parents, sisters and brothers which were killed just next to him, while the VERY LARGE MAJORITY, of those survivors that were able to escape, have all the same story of THEIR brothers, THEIR sisters, THEIR fathers, THEIR mothers... killed, not "they have heard, saw killings" but they were part of what happened. If you think that you can ever compared the planned and executed extermination of a people, you are not different than a dog, and sorry to tell you that, but you have absolutly no morality.

And as for Kars, the Armenians didn't need to fight for Kars, because Kars was even not part of the Ottoman empire, it was part of the Russian Armenia, that your encestors killed its Armenian habitants and annexed to your lovly republic... talking of traitors, yes the Russian Armenians collaborated with the Russian empire, since the Ottoman wanted to annex Russian Armenia, when the Russian Armenians tried to protect what was theirs, the durty and criminal empire attacked its own Armenian population as vengence, like the Germans decided to exterminate the Jews when they lost on the Soviet front accising the Jews and avenging on them. The difference being that the Germans were enough human to accept what they did wrong.

As for Armenians fighting against the Turks, go ahead, go at my site, and your arguments will be destroyed one by one, the Armenian males were conscripted in the Ottoman army serving as first front soldiers or labour workers, working on the Baghdad railroad, it is easy to bull**** this kind of lies to ignorants, but try to tell those lies to anyone having the slightest knowledge of what happened, you will look like a total ignorant.

Now comming to the deportation, where the Armenians were sent ? In the desert, when the Red Cross and many relief organisations asked to feed those sent there, the Ottoman empire answered that they wished nothing to be done that could prolong their lives. They even said to the Germans that those Germans should not feed the Armenians. Now answer me, why the Ottoman blocked any relief by telling they wished nothing to be done that could prolong their lives ? Was there any reason for that as well ? Why children were drown, burned, killed by injection, people gased etc... is there any reason for that ? Now go ahead, give me reasons for that, and if you deny those having happened, I will load this board references from German and Turkish sources to shut your mouth.

But of course, you prefer refering to ASALA, things thathell nothing to do with the subject, like those that deny the Jewish genocide by refering to the present Palestinian conflicts, you have very few things in your hand to defend yourself, so you must expend those in order to fool the readers, like the rest of those unmoral nationalists.

Are you comparing your pathetic letters not published in Greek journals, with the fact that I have been banned from Turkey.com and that pornographic materials were posted by the moderators to accuse me of being the author to assassinate my caracter ? Or those lies about reasons given to ban me ? Go ahead, go at my forum and have the balls to answer those things I raised about Turkey.com, go ahead.

[politics_student]

A Ottoman statesman killed by Armenians named Cemal Pasha





An Armenian militan called Levon Ekmekciyan who by an attack to Ankara Esenboga Airport killed 9 people and caused 82 to injure




A Turkish peasant killed by Armenians




The family of Müþtak killed by Armenians in Erzincan Odabaþý







Turkish children and women massacred by Armenian on 25th April 1918 in Subatan





Turks killed by Armenians by cutting of their heads and arms





An old men who had lived the Armenian Assaults named Hacý Abbas Güneþ



There are above some photos I don't know if they would seem but you can look them also

http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/turkce/album/

It's very unlogiz what you are supporting on the other hand I don't understand why do u overpass the Armenian Terrorist Organization ASALA.
The Armenian problem began in the 2nd half of 19th century and it strengthened with the help of Western powers.at the 1877-1878 it converted itself to an independent Armenian thought.
Armenians in this regard helped the Russians who invaded the Eastern Region and demanded an autonom state from them.The treties of Ayastefanos and Berlin ensured this demand.After 1880s this demand converted itself into weaponry attacks.
The Armenakan Committee which was established in 1885 in Van,the Hýnçak Committee(1886) and the Armenian Reformist Federation which was called as Tasnak Committee organized rebellions in several parts of the Eastern Region.They attacked the villages and began to assaults on Turks living there.Just in Sason they killed many Turks.
Because of that the Ottoman government warned the Armenian patriarch and deputies 'THAT THEY WOULD TAKE ALL PRECAUTÝONS IF THEY CONTINIU THEÝR ATTACKS ON TURKS'
But the assaults continued and on 24th April 1915 Ottoman government decided to close the Armenian committees and to arrest 2345 administrators who were doing actions against the stability of the state.
But this event was used as a propoganda tool by your cunning ancestors though they have killed many Turks and that was the result of their killing Turks. Archbishop Kevork sent S.O.S telgraphs to American President.
Because of Self-defence Ottoman state decided to sent the Armenian Population there to the other regions by declaring deportation law on 27th mai 1915.According to that decree the Armenians evacuated from Van,Bitlis and Erzurum would be deported to the south of Mousul and Urfa and the Armenians evacuated from Adana and Maras region
would sent to east of Syria and Halep.It's true that some Armenians died during the deportation but this wasn't an action organized by the state.The deaths was due to assaults caused by poor people of the region,hungry and diseases. and furthermore even there were some Turkish generals who wanted to attack them during deportation were arrested and even executed!
As I said earlier I am graduated from the department of Internationla politics and in my University I went a lot of conferences about this theme exagarated by Armenians.In one of the Conferences there were participants coming from the Eastern region who themselves or their fathers have lived this Armenian massacre.Most of their families was killed by Armenians and as a Turkish Professor tried to be moderate by saying'We should strengthen our relations with Armenians' He was deeply criticized as this group cannot forget what Armenians did them!So it's unlogic that u claim this is genocide if it were genocide:
1)THERE WEREN'T ANY TURKS KÝLLED BY ARMENÝANS
2)IT WOULD BE ORGANIZED BY THE STATE TO KÝLL THE ARMENÝANS IN ORDER TO CLEAN YOUR RACE
And below there are some diplomats killed by Armenians and Greeks.Most of them are killed by ASALA terrorists.Only the at the end are killed by Greek terrorist organization 9th mai(I am not sure from its name)
And talk only for myself but not for the other Turks I establish that I am racist and hate Armenians and Greeks(most of the Turks are very kind to foreigners) but especially I hate EU.Yes I am full of hatred because my childhood, as a child of a Turkish diplomat, in Germany is full of fear,beat and sexual harrassment that I cannot repare even today!! as a Turkish young person we wouldn't permit you to divide our country WITH THE HELP OF THE WEST!!

27.01.1973 Santa Barbara / Baþkonsolos Mehmet BAYDAR
Konsolos Bahadýr DEMÝR
22.10.1975 Viyana / Wien / Büyükelçi Daniþ TUNALIGÝL
24.10.1975 Paris / Büyükelçi Ýsmail EREZ
Þoför / Driver Talip YENER
16.02.1976 Beyrut / Baþkatip Oktar CÝRÝT

09.06.1977 Vatican City / Büyükelçi Taha CARIM
02.06.1978 Madrid / Büyükelçi / Elçi Necla KUNERALP
Em.Büyükelçi / Retired Ambassador Beþir BALCIOÐLU
12.10.1979 Lahey / Büyükelçi Oðlu / Ambassador's Son Ahmet BENLER
22.12.1979 Paris / Turizm Müþaviri / Tourism Counsellor Yýlmaz ÇOLPAN
31.07.1980 Atina / Athens Ýdari Ataþe Galip ÖZMEN
Athens / Ýdari Ataþe Kýzý Neslihan ÖZMEN
17.12.1980 Sydney / Baþkonsolos Þarýk ARIYAK
Güvenlik Ataþesi Engin SEVER

04.03.1981
Paris / Çalýþma Ataþesi Reþat MORALI
Din Görevlisi Tecelli ARI
09.06.1981 Cenevre/ Sözleþmeli Sek. M. Savaþ YERGÜZ
24.09.1981 Paris/ Güvenlik Ataþesi Cemal ÖZEN
28.01.1982 Los Angeles / Baþkonsolos Kemal ARIKAN
08.04.1982 Ottava / Ottawa / Ticaret Müþaviri / Counsellor for Commercial Affairs Kani GÜNGÖR
04.05.1982 Boston / Fahri Baþkonsolos / Honorary Consul General Orhan GÜNDÜZ
07.06.1982 Lizbon / Lisbon / Ýdari Ataþe/ Administrative Officer Erkut AKBAY
27.08.1982 Ottawa / Askeri Ataþe Albay / Military Attache Colonel Atilla ALTIKAT
09.09.1982 Burgaz / Ýdari Ataþe / Administrative Attache Bora SÜELKAN
08.01.1983 Lisbon / Ýdari Ataþe Eþi / Nadide AKBAY,Administrative Officer's Wife eþi merhum Erkut AKBAY'ýn yaþamýný yitirdiði 07.06.1982 tarihli saldýrýda yaralanmýþ ve 08.01.1983 tarihinde yaþamýný yitirmiþtir. Nadide AKBAY
09.03.1983 Belgrad / Büyükelçi / Ambassador Galip BALKAR
14.07.1983 BrükseI / Brussels / Ýdari Ataþe / Administrative Attache Dursun AKSOY
27.07.1983 Lisbon / Müsteþar Elçi / Wife of the Counsellor Cahide MIHÇIOÐLU
28.04.1984 Tahran / Sözleþ.Sek. Elçi / Wife of Secre. Iþýk YÖNDER
20.06.1984 Viyana / Çalýþma Ataþesi Erdoðan ÖZEN
19.11.1984 Viyana / Uluslararasý Memur Evner ERGUN
07.10.1991 Atina / Basýn Ataþesi Çetin GÖRGÜ
11.12.1993 Baðdat / Ýdari Ataþe Çaðlar YÜCEL
04.07.1994 Atina / Müsteþar Haluk SÝPAHÝOÐLU

[hellotoyou]

He unmoral denialist of the extermination of a people, has still the face to confront me by copypasting stuff that I have entirly destroyed. And again, this individual has just proved that she is no better than a copy-pasting machine, when cornered and having nothing to say, just go on a Government sponsered web-site, and copy trashes after trashes, from this same government, a terrorist of history a disgusting Militarist dictatorial regime, the fruit of the Kemalist Fascist regime.

Ah, and I have actually proved that many of those pictures were forgeries, I have presented memoires of Western eyewithnesses of how "stock of arms"were prepared by the Ottoman, where they took pictures of them and than claim they were stock of arms found from the Armenians, or as well presented from the memoirs of a Muslim, how Armenians were killed, and how than the Ottoman sent people to "decoratë"the scene and make look those victims as Muslim, and than take pictures from hired photographs. Do you want I repost that ? Or you better go and ask the racist moderators at Turkey.com about those references I presented and how they were deleted ?

You see, it is very easy to present pictures, when those pictures were actually taken by the perpetrators, on the other hand, the pictures of Armenian concentration camps were taken by Germans, that were Ottoman allies, and not by the Armenians. So here, we have the words of a genocidal government preparing pictures against those of the Germans presenting pictures, that from its content will embarass themselves, since the Ottoman was there ally.

Now, this racist individual comming on this board denying a genocide, and even not having the feeling of GUILT or EMBARASSEMENT on what she is doing, she thinks she will come here and sound "victourious"of the fartations she brings, refering to the ASALA< that has the heel of NOTHING to do with what happened in 1915. Do you actually think that having read few things on the web, and as the central believe of yours based on your Turkishness, and your racist view of not recognising a fact, because as a Turk you can't concieve that the Turks could done that, you can face me ? Dear girl, it has been more than 4 years I have studied this subject, I am just compleating two essays about Distortion and falshood, your allegations, I know them even before you write them to me, I have read any major denialists, have read every Turkish denialist web-sites, I know them more than you do, do you really believe that with farts from here and there you will be able to count any points ? Go ahead, don't be chicken go at my forum, and challenge me, go ahead... why acting like a chicken ? I mean, do you really want to be destroyed in an International platform such as Belgium.com ? Are you really read to take the rist ?

Answer to that question, JUST ANSWER TO THAT ONE ! And, I will start a thread just here, and expose the denialism and destroy your claims one by one for everyone to read. But if I were in your place, I would first email the Moderators at Turkey.com just to know who you are facing with.

So, do you accept ? Are you ready to discuss the matter here for everyone to read ?