If you were the prime minister of Turkey

[belgian]

Nice comment bosse_s. I think they have to find their identity and where they belong. Sweden is where she is, no one will be able to keep vikings out of Europe)
My greatest suggestion will be the creation of the Social Security system for everyone in Turkey, including protectionand pay of unemployed. Second half of the parliament members should be of female gender. This seems more difficult even in France the precentage exceeds rarely 1 per 100.

[thule]

Either way, I think in the end Turkey will have to decide for themselves how bad they want to join the EU. They'll have to decide if the EU is worth making several changes to their system of government.


/Alex

[belgian]

Well I think that they will change them. The majority seems favorable to abolish the death penalty and former president of Turkey Turgut Ozal was Kurdish(he told himself) Besides if they turn their back to Europe they have to embrace the middle east countries or Russia as neighbors. Bosse is right, they have to chose where they will finally belong. I don't think this is an atractive alternative to EU.

[bosse_s]

I think we can kick this forum to life again...

I watched CNN the other night and some Turkish politician (I think it was the prime minister) were talking about their support to "the fight against terrorism". Turkey is willing to help the U.S and allied with airbases, troops etc.

The funny (in lack of a better word...) thing was the guy talked about that "we have experienced terror and know that terrorism must be defeted" and I understood that the guy must have been talking about the Kurds as "terrorists"? He also said that the EU had not been so helpful with that issue as the U.S (will be?). To me, it was quite obvious that Turkey sees a chance to give the U.S some, and get back some in terms of support for their way of treating the Kurds?

The politican avoided to give an answer to the question regarding how their action and support for their struggle might be interpreted in the rest of the arab (and western) world.

I think this might be a step in the wrong direction for Turkey in the matter of getting "closer to the EU".

This makes it even clearer that the issue of "getting close" to eachother in the world of nations is purely political?

[belgian]

Several questions here are the answers I can provide. I'm no politician or journalist, just someone who dreams of a more tolerant world so my answers reflect only my personal opinion. The best way to achieve my dream seems to have the courage to expose problems, ask the opinion of others and allow communication of ideas.
What they mean in fact is the Muslim extremists who are mostly located in Germany. All Muslim extremist leaders who one day have a problem with justice get polytical asylum either in Europe or USA. More curious they benefit of unlimited funds to support their militants. They pay 100 dollars/month to any student who would cover their heads with the black scarf, symbol of extremists.
One exemple may be Murat Kaplan who declared the Holly war against Turkish republic and western countries years ago. He actually lives in Germany. Once a German journalist questioned one of his friends. He asked who he would consider as opponent in the holly war. He answered anyone who would not embrace Islam. He asked "Does this incude Christians?" He didn't answer.
Turkey is in a very delicate position among Muslim countries which are also her neighbors. It's not a secret that most if not all middle eastern Muslim countries are in state of pre-war against Israel. Turkey not only was among the first countries in the world to recognize the new state of Israel, she also signed an agreement according to which she will fight against any agressor targeting Israel. In other terms Turkey will declare war against any country that would attack Israel. This enrages Muslim war and Syria considers Turkey as a threat against her integrity. TUrkey and Israel perform each year joint naval maneuvers in the Mediteranean(the lasty one was called reliable mermaid, no joke) and Arab countries protest these big scale war games performed with what they call the greatest enemy of Islam. In short Turkey has no friend in the Muslim world even though she tries to keep good relations as she should import all her oil from them. Now the Turkish parliament agreed to send troops in Afganistan and a brigade with a general as chief is already in USA, Pentagon exactly.
On a crucial moment where US parliament discuss about special laws against terrorism which may limit citizens rights Turkish parliament banned the death penalty and agreed the free use of Kurdish language in the country. That's a good beginning in the long way that will lead to become a modern democratic country. EU can be of great help but personally I don't believe that they could accept Turkey as a member. Whatever can be said there is no comparison between Turkey and other Muslim countries in terms of democracy if you consider Iraq, Iran, Syria or Afganistan.
On the other hand they are neither the friend of east nor the west. There should be something wrong with their politics.

[bosse_s]

Nice peace of information, belgian! I can see that I was somewhat wrong in my conclusions about the roots and causes of the the turkish positioning in the current Afghanistan situation.

Your information on the situation even made my picture of the turkish politics even more blurry. Do they know what they want, or do you think they are being oppurtunistic? Is their decision to help the U.S a way to find a "less demandning friend" (thinking about the death penalty for example) than the EU? How does the U.S tackle the support from a country who are hostile against their Kurdish population at the same time as the U.S and UN is bashing the Iraqies for the way their are treating the Kurds?

[belgian]

Sorry for my late reply. I'm afraid that you will be more confused if I can tell you all I know about Turkey. I love history and I doubt anyone can understand what's happening in the Middle East or Balkans while ignoring their history. I was astonished when I saw the Turkish prime minister on TV answering the questions of CNN. He is actually in terminal stage of a deadly disease. Turkish newspapers are often asking "is there any captain on board" nobody knows who is doing what. It seems it's an old tradition as Ottoman Empire lost Saoudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Kosova, Macedonia in less than 20 years. Their performance seems difficult to attend by others. They try to join western civilisation while keeping their Muslim religion. 150 years ago they changed their constitution accepting equal rights for anyone. They remind me a joke:
Daddy why have I black skin
To resist better to the burning sunlight of Africa son
Why do I have curly hair
To keep your hair away of branches in the forest
Why do I have long legs,
To run faster that predators
So dad why the hell am I born in New York?
Arabs also are asking what a Muslim country is doing in NATO or EU and how can she be democratic or secular.
Kurds were betrayed by many countries in the past years. At the end of Gulf war dad Bush promised help if they attack Saddam. The brave man attacked but Bush changed his mind and the help never came. Saddam attacked them with chemical weapons and they were killed by thousands. The only country who accepted them by ten thousands was...Turkey.
I had many Kurdish friends in Belgium. They are fine guys but living probably at the same age as Afganis. I once helped one of them to be hospitalized in the University hospital. He didn't kneww how to thank me. I met his big family, two wives and dozens of children. He told me "I am your best friend now, if somenone hurts you one day, please tel me we will kill us."
I worked with an Armenian lady, member of a Nobel prize winner team. She told me once that she hated the term Kurdistan. She claimed that Christian Armenians of Anatolia were massacred by Muslim Kurdish armed forces and their land stolen by them in 1915. I searched the history of those tragic events. In fact Kurdish regiments were created before WWI by a Turkish Sultan and as they were unsuccessful in the war against Russia they were appointed for the task of deportation of Armenians. As a curious coincidence, the commander of the Ottoman army during WWI was a German general, Liman von Sanders.

[belgian]

I was talking about Murat Kaplan a Turkish Muslim extremist who declared the Holly war against secular turkish republic and all others. Turkey asked his extradition longtime ago with no reply from Germany. His right hand man had been arrested in Frankfurt airport yesterday while taking an Iran air plane to Teheran because he had a "how to be a holly warrior" CD, protection outfit against biological or chemical weapons, a CD with views of WTC attack and a suspicious liquid looking like mercury in his luggages. It seems that he hadn't been involved in any forbidden activity in Germany.

[andrewfilis-yelaghotis]

how about nuke the entire country? as a prime minister i would make sure i have got my arse covered and flown out of span. turkey has always been a major problem to its neighbours and has low rates of literacy, what is so cool about it?>?? the culture snatching? the fabrication of a rather cruel identity i,e turkish , the long and notorious human rights violations or the indigestible cuisine??? mixing yoghurt and meat pleaseeeeeeeeee. just nuke the country whilst they have had time to flee and become a diaspora and really appreciate what it is like to be a greek, armenian, kurd or whatever and when they have no country they will have to conform into civilised folk as the rest of us. of course this is extreme and i do not really endorse it but hey how serious is this discussion board?
take care a.

[belgian]

Thank you for your comment. In fact your solution may be very useful and clever. The only problem is that we will get rid of their neighbors as well by using nuclear weapons but this should not be a problem especially for Greece who claim to be the inventor of meat mixed with yoghurt and who takes huge amounts of help from EU but yielding nothing in return. We can find more money for other European countries. The other neighbors. Syria, Iran, Iraq, ex Soviet republics have neither a good reputation.
I agree about this discussion board and I really am disappointed. People love to accuse each other or talk about sex and music(I'm not against) but no one spares any second of their lives to propose a solution to the problems of others.
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
A Einstein

[andrewfilis-yelaghotis]

hi to all.
dear belgian, being reared in a judaiohellenic household i can say that hellenes never have claimed to have invented the mixture of dairy and meat. writings from as early as 6 century b.c have talked about the unsuitability of contaminating dairy with meat justifying it as not proper or aagainst the gods will.
so that puts on point straight, the influence is mainly turkish. b/ we could just imagine turkey being nuked anyway ha
so thats not much of a problem.
and c/ the proverb that you have used somewhat is unacceptable for me. of course its the evil that are responsible, i want to get on with my life without others shifting the responsibility and guilt to me because there is some motherfuc***s that get away with murder ok??? like pleaaaaaaaseeeeee
anyway take care
a.

[belgian]

Well why bother if we nuke Greece with Turkey you will be more precious than today as there will be much less Greeks around and we will get rid of the biggest hole in the European community budget:-)
No I'm joking some of my best friends are Greeks and I'll do anything to save their homeland if one day a danger arises. When I was a young assistant I had a Greek patient. He was an immigrant in Belgium worked in coal mines and retired. He was a brave man very big and very courageous and loved me as his son even though he roughly knew me. We found a lung cancer which was beyond any therapeutic option. I had to announce the bad news and didn't know how to tell it. He immediately knew what it was. He came next to me looked in my eyes and grabbed my arm and told me
"Please son don't worry for me. God gave me beautiful children a loving wife and a long happy life. What could I ask more? Now God wants me back and I'll go join the eternity gladly and thank God for all I got. I see in your eyes that there is nothing you can do for me. But if you want to experiment any drug that could be useful for the future please do it." I had tears in my eyes and unable to talk not to burst into tears. He told me "I know that you love me I love you too this love is the best treatment you can offer to me."
I promised him to come in Athens drink ouzo with him. Unfortunately he died shortly after leaving the hospital.
On the other hand you should come back to the modern world from your nest in the antiquity. Greek restaurants at least the ones in Belgium always have a meat dish with yoghurt togeather with yoghurt based mezes. The greatest insult for these Greek chefs is to suggest that those dishes may be of Turkish origin or be influenced by Turks. They become furious and claim that even the hard coffee is of Greek origin and stolen by invading Turks. You can write to them and you may convince them on the contrary. Anyway I give you a Greek recipe of a meal mixing lamb meat with yoghurt.

Lamb fillet with strained yoghurt, feta and pinenuts
Serves 4

Ingredients: 4 x 140g pieces lamb fillet, seasoned with salt and pepper; 2 tbsp olive oil; 175ml Greek yoghurt; 115g feta, crumbled; 60g toasted pinenuts; 15ml spring onion greens, chopped; fresh basil, chopped; 2 egg yolks; 1/2 tsp ground cumin; 1 tbsp olive oil.

Method: Preheat oven to 200C/400F/gas mark 6. Heat a large frying pan until hot, then add 2 tbsp olive oil and the seasoned lamb. Fry for a couple of minutes on each side, until browned. Remove from the pan and set aside. Pat the fillets dry with kitchen paper.

Place all the remaining ingredients in a large bowl, except half the pinenuts, and mix until well combined. Chill in the fridge for 10 minutes. Divide the yoghurt mixture equally into four, and spoon over one side of each lamb fillet. Scatter over the remaining pinenuts, then place the meat on a roasting tray and return to the fridge for 10 minutes. Remove, and cook in the oven for 5-8 minutes, depending how pink you like your lamb. Allow to rest for a few minutes before serving, sliced thickly.

What Einstein mean is that if you close your eyes on terrorist acts or crime you will one day become victim of terrorist acts as many countries do now against Muslim terrorists. Of course teh criminals should also be punished.

[andrewfilis-yelaghotis]

hi belgian,
i loved your reply. of course most of what i write is a joke, but anyone studying or interested in gastronomy knows that yoghurt mixed with meat is a turkish influence. they also do this in hungary where turks invaded.anyway the chefs there obviously are oblivious to this act. flopping burgers or making tzatziki does not make you a connoisseur or whatever.anyway sorry that your greek friend died but i hope he rests and did not have a rough death. probably his wisdom that is expressedin what you wrote would have been his consolance.anyway all the best
and ok dont nuke turkey
i would hate to see more misery in this world. happy now??
cheers
a.

[belgian]

I will not push now on this red button that will launch the ICBM's to middle east, I do it only for you.
Monsieur Priskos gave me an unforgettable lesson. Belgium was not his mother land, he was suffering terribly. Even under these conditions he was ready to suffer more to help people of this country where he earned his life. Before death he was very calm and proud. Not only him but his wife and daughters were also smiling. I felt ashamed to remain before this wonderful family with tears in my eyes.
He had to be followed on the outpatient clinic by my chief. For months I couldn't look in the outpatient protocol records. When I finally did I found that he died shortly after leaving the hospital.

[andrewfilis-yelaghotis]

hi belgian, nice to know that the missiles wont go off. anyway hope you are well all the best andrew.
open a discussion again that was fun ha ha
cheers