Interest in Politics?

[imported_GardenCity]

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[This message has been edited by GardenCity (edited 29 April 2000).]

[imported_watchmanz]

Garden City eh Paul? Must be Hamilton - a beautiful place. Welcome to the conversation. Don't be shy about saying what you want as this forum, like all of these forums, is open to everbody. You asked me my opinion about evading tax by investing offshore etc. I can't see anything wrong with that at all. There is a huge difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Sending monies offshore for investment is just evasion and it is one of the great things about capitalism. If you can make money by doing it, then why shouldn't you? Who is it hurting?

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Watchmanz
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"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage"
- Thucydides

[imported_GardenCity]

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[This message has been edited by GardenCity (edited 29 April 2000).]

[imported_watchmanz]

Hi Paul, actually you may be right with your tax terms.I will bow to better knowledge here as I did question myself when I wrote that last reply. I can say that my education in tax terminology is limited to the Winebox Enquiry. I know the basics of tax and the political systems, but terminology is sometimes my weak point. If you want to pass on things you have learned then you go for it. Anyone who reckons they can never learn any more is fool, and I'd be grateful to learn new things. That's how we develop mentally.
Christchurch - awesome. I have never been further south than Wellington, although I have promised myself a trip to the South island one day. I have heard Christchurch is fantastic. As if you couldn't guess, I am in Auckland

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Watchmanz
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"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage"
- Thucydides

[TZT]

I would have paid more with the flat tax. I just got a copy of the form that Steve Forbs designed and under his flat tax proposal I would have to pay $1100 more in taxes than under our current system. However, it is my understanding that Steve Forbs will let people chose which system they want to be taxed under. Not sure the system could afford the double wammy in lost revenue. Perhaps I am a libral being concerned with revenue and all.

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Shan "Free Ads Free Links" Ziel
www.freeyellow.com/members8/shanziel/FREELINKS.html

[imported_watchmanz]

Steve who?
I'm not being cynical ... I really do not who this guy is. His proposal sounds pathetic though. Running two tax systems would cost the country in increased processing costs for a start.
Not wise ..... does anyone take this guy seriously?

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Watchmanz
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"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage"
- Thucydides

[imported_cher]

Hey Kev! zman is talking about Steve Forbs, owner of Forbs magizine, and was running for president. he has dropped out of the race, He ran four years ago to. I really like him. I don't see where z would pay more in taxes if it were a flat tax. He must have some really great right-offs. I pay 36% and that is with right-offs, so I don't understand. I would gladly pay 10% with no right-offs and be way ahead of the game. 26% of my money still in the pocket, sounds good to me. Later cher!

[Bj_rn]

I heard that New Zealand used to be much like Sweden with high taxes, good wellfare and so on, but that this has changed as the unemploymentfigure went up. What is the average tax-level in NZ?

Here in Sweden the average tax-level is about 54%. This is high, think I. We do, however, get something back from it free schools and universitys, free hospital treatment, good unemployment insurance and so on.

The system malfunction sometimes. Our escaliting tax-system can't handle really rich persons. A few years ago one of the riches men in Sweden, Stefan Persson (owner of cloth company Hennes & Mauritz) had to pay a whooping 104% of his income in tax. Yes, he had to pay more in tax than he earned! The same happened to author Astrid Lindgren (more than 100% in income tax).

[imported_GardenCity]

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[This message has been edited by GardenCity (edited 29 April 2000).]

[KATNZ]

Just wanted to bring this back up to the top of the list.......cos I REALLY want to know the answers to Paul's questions - Watchmanz, you sound really onto it.

kat

[TZT]

Cher,

Forbs plan gives 13,000 deduction for each adult and 5,000 for each child. You subtract your deductions from your income and multiply by 17%. I was actually suprized that I owed more and did the math twice.

As for my deductions. I put 10% of my income into a 401K and 13% into a 457B so a total of 23% of my income is tax defered. I also put 2K into a Roth IRA so I do avoid/delay taxes as much as I can. I'm not pro tax. I just think we should get out of debt before we start spending a "surpluss" which may be an abnormality.

I also do some MLM but I'm putting whatever I earn back it to the busisness so that is a wash.

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Shan "Free Ads Free Links" Ziel
www.freeyellow.com/members8/shanziel/FREELINKS.html

[imported_watchmanz]

Hi everyone - I'm back again. Sorry for being away lately. I'll try and keep up to date as often as I can. Hey Z! Just take a look at the post above ..... the 401 what? It sounds like rocket science. That is why taxes can easily be avoided and why ordinary people have to pay a fortune in taxes. As for Bjorn above (sorry, I'm trying to encompass everything in one response) 104% tax rate is nothing short of highway robbery! Z, what are these deductions, and why are they made from your gross income instead of the net income? Deductions straight from gross income automatically reduce the total tax liability - no wonder the US IRS is so large and powerful - they need to be to keep up with all of this deductions and rebates stuff. I would die if I had to do that every year!
In New Zealand the current tax rate for moderate income earners is approximately 20% in combination with a 12.5% indirect tax. In return for that we enjoy free health care and welfare etc, just at a reduced degree to what we enjoyed in the past. In New Zealand nowadays, you pay for thse services if you are capable. After all, welfare is there for those who need it, not for those who want to skim the Government. Paul's suggestion of legally lessening your tax liability sounds great for the individual who migh want to pay les tax. The end result though is that Governments close the loopholes or just increase the tax percentage liability to make up for it - so nobody wins in the end.
A simple solution is a straight 20% indirect tax rate for everyone and no income tax at all. That way it cannot be avoided. The rich will pay more as they spend more, and it is a tax on spending not on income. Everybody is treated fairly, and the welfare net is still there for the lower paid in society who require assistance at any time. I still maintain this is the fairest system ... and it also reduces the need to have prying heavy-handed Governments with IRS departments that are simply modern-day versions of the secret police.

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Watchmanz
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"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage"
- Thucydides

[imported_MARX]

Originally posted by watchmanz:
This is really strange. Elsewhere in these discussion boards there are tons of messages, with people professing interest in all aspects of New Zealand life and society. And yet here is a discussion board about the most important aspect of any society and it is relatively ignored.
I cannot believe that nobody has any interest in how the Government of New Zealand makes it decisions, how it works, who it is (seeing as how we recently had an election) and so on? Is it apathy or ignorance?

It is neither it is a false consousness. Capatalism is in crises evidance of over production is widespread. And like any parasite it needs to defend itself and it does this via the media and altering public perseption. here is an examples i come across on a daily bases in the u.k
the public are against imagrants fleeing persecution and coming to our country. But the same people feel nothiong to a Ausy meida ticoon who has failed to pay taxes to the value of 11 billion £.And the same git continualy releases front page headlines attacking imagrants and even lieing about the benefits they recieve, thus casting the public perseption elsewhere.
But i think the most contributing factor is that people have enough strugle in there own lives, low pay, over work, no job security, so much so that most people can only manage to live from one week to the next. The reality of global warming, GMO's, and politics, and simply reality itself, are just to much so you put your head down and just get on with it.
Just come back from your country, spent a month over there/here, real nice place especialy Wellington. Did feal that the ruling class were trying to establish them selves, and start a class system

[imported_neo]

Hi All,

I discovered this web site today, when a group of us were brain storming URL addresses to purchase as an investment. Anyway, I have read briefly the gist of this thread and various views, so I'll just throw in my 20US cents. I can't throw 20NZ cents
as it's worthless. And its only thanks to the fascist/socialist anti-business direction of the Labour/Alliance/Greens coalitin that sees NZ slipping to third world status as business, both national, and international lose confidence in the direction of current government.

If a country is to grow and prosper and be competitive with leading economies like the US then it must free up its business sector. It is not governments, unions, bureaucrats, academics, lawyers, judges, who create jobs it's the business sector or more importantly the small business sector.

The heavy handed approach by the new regime on business in NZ is evidence in the declining standard of the NZ economy. In the six months this lot have been in office, NZ business has seen the competitive nature of ACC insurance (work accident insurance) returned back to manopolistic state control at huge cost to business, the top 10 percent wage earners in NZ have had their taxs increased to 39 percent, union controls over business with the proposed employments relations bill is an absolute disgrace in the new century and is taking NZ back to 20th century ideology where the unproductive lazy parasitical elites have control over the hard working productive sector.

If you were an overseas investor or even a local investor would you in all honesty choose the NZ economy as a winner to invest money in. Of course you wouldn't and this is evidenced in investors and business retracting on any decision making in terms of their own returns and NZs future.

Already we have seen the NZ dollars reduced to around 46US cents, (approaching third world status, or is NZ already a third world economy) and we all know the offshoot of that is higher prices paid for imported goods, which has a trickle down effect on the economy.

Ten days ago, the NZ government were feeling the pressure as the headlines in major national newspapers screamed NZ DOLLAR AT RECORD LOW, ECONOMY IN DECLINE, BUSINESS CONFIDENCE EVAPORATES, CLARKE GIVES THE ARTS 86 MILLION DOLLARS. LABOUR HONEYMOON OVER.

And of course the pressure the coalition were feeling at that time and building I might add was released with the disgraceful antics of thugs in Fiji initiating a coup on a government in dire straits.

In my view the way to turn any economy around is simple and I'll cover that on another night.

later

neo

[imported_watchmanz]

So Neo, you're gonna be the saviour of all economies are you? If the answer to all of the worlds problems are so simple then why are you looking for investment URL's instead of ruling the world? Don't get me wrong ... I don't disagree with everything you say, but there are some things you have said that are utter crap. For example, the NZ Dollar falling against the US Dollar indicates a lack of business confidence. What a load of bollocks. First of all, every major currency in the world fell against the US Dollar. The NZ Dollar maintained a par with every other world currency against which it is measured. That indicates the US Dollar was too highly valued, not the reverse. Also, the US Dollar is not the leading currency when compared to NZ political and business affairs. NZ's main business partners are the Asia/Pacific region and the US steadily becomes less important as more time passes. The US is no longer a leading economy in the world as it dies underneath a protectionist system of tariffs and union dominated controls.
Some of what the Clark Government has done is damaging from your AND MY view ... but some has also been constructive. The coup in Fiji has had no effect on NZ domestic politics whatsoever so I'm not sure why that was mentioned.
Neo, I think you and I actually share political ideals and opinions, so please don't take this as a personal insult or anything, but such total negativity and general denigration without foundation or analysis does not make for good political debate.

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Watchmanz
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"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage"
- Thucydides