Let's talk about Russia

[allenb]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ar_1&printer=1


The Russian president has agreed to re-instate the red star as the official symbol of the Russian military and has brought back the Soviet anthem (with new words).
Personally, I think Putin has good intentions and that he is being truthful about this as being an attempt to mend some bad feelings resulting from Yeltsin's attempts to eliminate all Soviet-era symbols. Some may say that this is a preview of things to come to attempt to usher in a new communist state?
I think Putin's motives are sincere, however, I do see one thing that somewhat bothers me - Over the past few years, groups that are nostalgic about the Soviet days and fascist groups have seemed to become increasingly active in the former Soviet Union. Could the revival of these symbols be an encouragement to these groups? It is a given that they are happy to hear this news. I'm sure there are some fascist groups in Germany that would love to see the swastika come back (and we never got rid of the confederate battle flag in the south! It is still on the Mississippi state flag..rednecks everywhere rejoice... So my concern is that this welcoming back of the Soviet symbols may give some fuel to simmering communist groups in Russia.

Comments? Hopefully there is someone present who is more knowledgeable about this than I am.

Allen B.
allenb@bama.ua.edu

[Marmaduke]

It's an interesting point you raise Allen. I'll have to ask my friend about it, but we were chatting about the 'state of Russia' only a few weeks back (at the time of the siege in Moscow). As I understand the situation in Russia now, many (especially the older generation) feel they were better off under the old regime under communism, when they had assured jobs and reliable pensions. Now their pensions count for almost nothing, and although their are the success stories of Russian Millionaires and apartments in Moscow costing upwards of $250,000- this is by far an exception rather than a rule (and often assisted by huge corruption and criminal underworld connections). The average Russian has seen their standard of life fall apart. Doctors now earn less than cosmetic salesmen, universities are chronically under funded, and many Russians see (through rather rose tinted glasses, perhaps) that what they have now is little compared to what they had in the past. In addition, there is a great resentment towards Americans (visa are now getting harder to get and there is more of an openly hostile views of visiting Americans) as they see that they have fallen as the worlds only other superpower, to a country that has an economy the size of Holland, and feels that it has now become subservient to Europe.

I think Putin is trying to 'resurrect' many of the old symbols in an attempt to re-introduce an element of pride back into the Russian people (this being cheaper than economic alternatives)perhaps in hoping this may 'stay' its further descent.

It does raise the question of whether this may be an indication that Russia could descend into a far more turbulent and nationalistic country which would not be a good state of affairs for any of us, and the reason for it sharp descent might be worthy of a thread all to itself ?

[allenb]

Months back I had a conversation with one of the faculty in the language department here who is from Russia. She said almost exactly what you posted. She mentioned that they had been able to attempt very good universities for free before the fall ofthe USSR and that they received government support. Now that the regime has fallen that the only major difference anyone noticed was that they now have to pay for things that were once free and the government money they received sharply decreased or stopped altogether. She said that there was a lot of resentment toward the U.S. for not doing more to assist in the transition. I agree with her. It is in the best interest of everyone to assist the Russians in establishing a better standard of living for their people. It would be much better to have this country on friendly terms with us rather than as a provider of arms to terrorists and rogue nations or a direct threat itself. I'm afraid that is where the situation is headed, though. I think we did a good thing by bankrupting them, but we have failed miserably in following through afterwards...

Do you think your friend from Russia would be interested in joining us here?

Allen B.
allenb@bama.ua.edu

[Marmaduke]

I would love to get her to join Allen, she's a very bright lady- trained as an engineer (both parents are academics I think) but wanted to learn English, so she taught herself and now teaches the subject at school. It's hard to believe she's Russian at times. Trouble is it seems the internet is quite expensive (and I am not quite sure how it works there-they seem to have to buy cards that allow them so much time-or data transfer, so they are reluctant to join such boards).

I remember Olga (who loves Classical music) telling me of all the concerts she could go to in St Petersberg- world class musicians for next to nothing, so people would go to concerts and the theatre all the time. It also explains why many Russians are so well educated- everything was state subsidised. Yet now, to see one concert last month, would cost her 25% of ther monthly income, so she is unable to go very often.

I'll see if I can get to to pop in and say hi !

[Edited by Jasperthecat on 27th November 2002 at 19:07]

[Niquie]

I really want to get in on this, but I want to leave early today......Thanksgiving is at my house and I have to get my rear in gear.

So, post away and I will read your thoughts later in the week.

Gee, it's good to have the mental juices flowing again!

[Rikbe]

The Russians I know don't want back communism. Certainly not the middle aged who have lived it. They know very well it was communism that caused the actual situation.
One said: "before we had money but there was nothing to buy, now we can buy everything but we don't have the money".
But they are very suspicious to all politicians, inclusive Putin and there is still some prejudice remaining from the cold war towards the USA and the NATO.

[Marmaduke]

I met mostly Ukrainians (as, well, that's where I was !) but I have several Russian friends. Perhaps it was more the older generation that wanted the return of communism. Most of my frinds are my age- mid thirties, and yes, they don't want a return to the old days, but I do agree, they are still suspicious of the West and the US.

I am chatting with Olga at the moment...going to go for a real time interview here !

Will get back to you on this

[allenb]

Jasper, I think they are charged per MB of data transferred over there if I recall correctly.

Allen B.
allenb@bama.ua.edu

[Marmaduke]

Allen, that sounds right. I was chatting with Olga last night and she said that at present she pays for the length of time she's on the net, but they are changing it to the amount of MB downloaded. If you remember sib (Yuri) from Sweden, he told me in Omsk that all the ISPs charge per MB.

As to the question you raised earlier, Olga said that in the smaller villages and among the old, there is a desire to return to the days of communism (I presume as they have been hardest hit by the econmic reforms of late) but among the rest of the population, their is either apathy (as she said she sees in schools) or a desire to continue with the present reforms, but she did say there is a large amount of apathy in Russia at the moment.

She also said that many did not like the return of the old national anthem, for although the words had been changed, the previous meanings (and celebration of Stalin) was still fresh in many people's minds and that changing the words was little more than a cosmetic attempt to appease people.

The 5 pointed star seems to be far less contentious as it pointed more to the revolution, which although heralded communism, was also a libertion from the brutal and 'exclusive' Tsarist government of before.

I'll try and see if I can find out what some of my other friends think !

I still all the brains are back to working and questioning order again

Well I can't put any input to the current situation that is happening Russia at the moment....

So for now I will sit back and read all that is written.