Bush is a schemer

[jaccyn30_us]

Its so unfortunate that Bush thinks he can do whatever it wishes....just because of a howdy-doody president. Look at what he is doing in Iraq. Destroying the country illegitimately and then pretending to reconstruct by paying off with Iraq's own money. Unbelievable? Bush is pretty clever at that. He actually is trying to save his presidency for the 2004 elections by using the tax-payers money to impress them with shock and awe. That could have only spawned from a man who sleeps with the Devil himself. I just hope American citizens realize that their president is Satan and get him out in 2004.

[lavand]

Bush is not Satin. Satin has been around every since God made him as a angle. He is a fallen angel. I don't think Bush is an angel fallen or other wise.

And try reading Romans 13:1-14. (about government)
If you knew anything about the Bible, you would know The Anti-Christ (who, is not Satan)will more than likely be of Middle Eastern Decent!

Futhermore, the war was biblically justified as well as fulfilling bible prophecy! Try reading the bible from Genesis to Revelation, maybe you'll learn something!

Prophecy of Isreal fulfulled in 1948
Prophecy of Old Roman Empire fulfilled
Prophecy of the Rise of Babylon being fulfilled (thanks to Saddam) Who by the way thinks he is the succesor of Babylon. To bad he doesn't know Babylon will never be inhabited by people again! (Also biblically based)

All that is left is Armageddon and the Rapture

SO, Speak NOT of which you do not know!

And Yes, I am an American who happens to be of Belgian descent! (Flemish)

[Edited by lavand on 16th April 2003 at 22:05]

[de_ira]

Bush is not Satan - he's just a demented prick! But not to wory - someone, someday will say 'enough is enough' and shoot the bastard down. They couldn't protect themselfes on 9-11, they won't be able to protect themselfes the next time, and if they keep on ****ing with Muslims - all hell is going to break lose - and there is going to be another 9-11. My people have excperienced that in our history enough times to know better - the Americans are goingt to learn that too, the DAMN HARD WAY.

WAGDYRO

[TheUndertaker]

Iraq is better of than before... of course it costs money, and course they themselve will pay for it as well

after world war II we payed for our reconstructions as well

about the Bible Prophecies:

it is said not only by the appearance at Lourdes but also in other appearances of the holy mary and Near Death experiences with Christ encounters, that human civalisation has risen to his peak
- when our current pope dies
- and when there is peace in the land of David (Israel)
- major earthquakes and floods will tremble the earth
- the messiah will come again

than the end of the world is at is end

if these prophecies are true than the anti-christ is allready born

Anyhow, if you really care about iraqi people
whose hand are they gonna shake in 10 years from now
- those who stayed at home and preached for NO WAR and let Saddam in Power
- or those who fought with their lives for the freedom of the iraqi people

[imported_iluminado]

...... Some of you apocalypse enthusiasts, and other random Christian freaks are much scarier than any terrorist. I wish all of you fundamentalist nutcases would fight your wars on another planet, and leave us civilized human beings alone.

[TheUndertaker]

We are not scary:
Christian fundementalists are nuns, preachers, monks,... there form of fundementalism is pacifism not warfair.

Muslim fundementalism preaches war because there prophet was a conqueur, we preach peace for our prophet was a pacifist.

Your right that today the world is scary by religion, but it ain't the Pope this time, christians has done nothing wrong sinds the power of the dictator the pope fell.

WORRYING FACTS ABOUT ISLAM

- All but one of the world's remaining military regimes are in Muslim countries.
- With the exception of Turkey and Bangladesh, there are no real elections in any Muslim country.
- Of the current 30 active conflicts in the world no fewer than 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities.
- Two-thirds of the world's political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions each year.
- There is no mechanism for excommunication in Islam.
- There is no clerical hierarchy in Islam – hence, there was no reason why bin Laden could not claim the right to authorise himself as a "sheik" and issue religious fatwas, or edicts.

To end islamic terror, either uss should fall and grant them global domination
or them must fall, and each of every state of them must be seperated from there religion, for THAT is civilazition

But the Quran is against civilazition, civilazition is blasphemous... i love civilazition and our freedom to speak, freedom of rights, freedom of this and that
I love our freedoms and i ain't gonna support terrorists who want to destroy my freedoms

[Nousch]

Do you claim it as a kind of form of liberty that a country like the US is going to preach their kind of freedom in an Islamic country?? Do you think Iraqi's asked Bush to come and "liberate" their country?? Did you see what happened afterwards, after the "liberating"?? Iraqis stole in Bagdad everything they could steal. There was no legal structure anymore and it is still ongoing. That is what the Americans created = ANARCHY

Could it not be possible that the acts you call terrorism can also be described as terrorism from the side of the US? They are also attacking a foreign country with the poor excuse that Iraq is a terrorist country with chemical wapons (anyway, where are they, they are still not found???)
The US did not have any legal excuse to attack Iraq (nor a terrorist, nor a chemical nor a dictator one) because there are lots of other countries which have the same problems.... in that way, Bush should go everywhere then to preach his kind of liberty....hmmmm (he only goes where there is money to obtain (Afghanistan = pipeline, Iraq = petrol wells)



Before the 2nd Gulf War, Iraq was a country where different religions were tolerated. But you will see soon, the extreme Islamist will take the power as they did in other countries where Americans tried to "liberate".

Everywhere they went and tried to give wapons or try to preach their kind of freedom, extremism stands up. It is a kind of extremism agains the "modern civilization" which represents the US.

Why do you think, extremists "attacked" the us on 09-11? Because they are fed up with the American attitude of telling everybody everywhere how to act and react. It is not because they "helped" some countries during and after 2nd World War that they can appropriate themselves the right to preach their kind of liberty everywhere.

American liberty = capitalism, they only think about how earning money in the easiest way.(First making war, than breaking everything and at last rebuild everything and ask the country itself to pay (see Marshall plan and now, Iraq who is paying the reconstruction of its country by American companies with Iraqi petrol). By exploiting poor people who do not have any defense. Do you call this liberty???

Iraq could reconstruct easily their country themselves. They have enough ressources and money. They should have the liberty to chose themselves companies for their reconstruction

Anyway, for me it is certainly not a religious affair. It is not a war from the "goods" against the "bads". It is a war for world power.

[TheUndertaker]

"Do you claim it as a kind of form of liberty that a country like the US is going to preach their kind of freedom in an Islamic country??"

Their kind of freedom is a civil as yours and mine, i love my freedom of speech, religion, to vote, etc...
People must stand up to tyrants, for without rights you have nothing!
Saddam his view of liberty is not one you would want to give your children. It's called fascism...!

"Do you think Iraqi's asked Bush to come and "liberate" their country?? Did you see what happened afterwards, after the "liberating"?? Iraqis stole in Bagdad everything they could steal. There was no legal structure anymore and it is still ongoing. That is what the Americans created = ANARCHY"

The people of Iraq were surpressed for over 20 years, and yes the people of Iraq weren't proud to be dictated by a warlord... over 90% of the iraqi people is satisfied that Saddam is gone

the fact that the people looted when they were freed
NOBODY expected that, this is Saddam who made these people this way... he didn't saw his people has human individuals, but as cattle, beasts... I saw people on the streets looting telling the camera that they even don't have a chair to sit on. Every family in Iraq can tell you something Saddam has done them, members who died in his wars, children who died in his chemical genocides, people who were tortured for their opinion, people raped by his soldiers, a entire football team with supporters killed by Uday cause they lost...
Sorry, i support The US to end this mayhem, leaving Saddam in power wasn't peace, for uss maybe but not for it's people

who are the people of iraq gonna shake hands in 10 years from now?
- YOU who were against war, and so indirectly supported Saddam and allowing his genocides
- Or those US Soldiers who fought for there freedom

"Could it not be possible that the acts you call terrorism can also be described as terrorism from the side of the US? They are also attacking a foreign country with the poor excuse that Iraq is a terrorist country with chemical wapons (anyway, where are they, they are still not found???)"

Terrorism is the violent criminal intimidation of innocent people for political, religious, or social objectives.

The people that the US are condemning and manhunting are NOT innoncent people. Saddam is no saint and he made weapons of mass destruction, he used them, he started wars. He was the emperor of the middle-east his departure is giant step forward towards peace in the middle east.

and Iraq supported the MEK, the PLO and the Ansar-Al Islam, he practically funded and protected those, all tougth except Ansar Al-Islam there is no direct connection with Al Quada, but does this need to be?

"The US did not have any legal excuse to attack Iraq (nor a terrorist, nor a chemical nor a dictator one) because there are lots of other countries which have the same problems.... in that way, Bush should go everywhere then to preach his kind of liberty....hmmmm (he only goes where there is money to obtain (Afghanistan = pipeline, Iraq = petrol wells)"

first of all, Iraq wasn't just like any other country with a dictator, it was a country who constantly threatend the US, started wars AND made weapons of mass destruction. and i know there are other country's. But Iraq was a public enemy number 1 to America and it's neighbouring country's.
And after september 11 threats like that can no longer be underestimated or even tolerated.

I care about the people of Iraq not about the politics of WMP, the Weapons of Mass destruction argument was only to get the UN involved. wich they could if some country's with self interests like France & Russia (who had oil monopoly's in Iraq that they were afraid to loose) wouldn't of backed away.

There are enough moral reasons, threaths and less military isseus wich to me justified this war.
If you claim there are none, then you claim the same for Stalin or Pol Pot.
"Oh no, don't attack them, they are only killing there own people, that's not our problem" (sarcasm)

The oil argument isn't even an argument, cause the US could get oil from Iraq if it only lifted the sanctions.
Furthermore, is the oil market just like in Saudië Arabia an 'open' market, france or any other country willing to can BUY oil in Iraq, the oil isn't being looted
it will make the economy richer, and the people of Iraq. that is a good thing!
furthermore in 50 years from now, all Saudië oil will be gone. and i don't like the tought that in 50 years from now a dictator like Uday Hussein should have control over the destruction or the wealth of the West. Those oil sources must be isolated. We need oil! for better or for worse.
The world is for everybody, so let's share it!

"Before the 2nd Gulf War, Iraq was a country where different religions were tolerated."

Tolerated? what is the right for religion when etnic groups are being slaughtered for there origin and culture... that's like saying you have the right to walk but not to move

"But you will see soon, the extreme Islamist will take the power as they did in other countries where Americans tried to "liberate". "

Your a pessimist, how can you know when we don't try?
Things don't change by itself. It easy to be a pacifist when you are not responsibble for millions of people.

"Everywhere they went and tried to give wapons or try to preach their kind of freedom, extremism stands up. It is a kind of extremism agains the "modern civilization" which represents the US."

Of the current 30 active conflicts in the world no fewer than 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities.
America supports India (kashmir), Tjetjenië, the Fillipiens goverment, the saoedie goverment, Israel,etc.. and so on and so on
they only hate the US for their support of 'their enemy's'
They attack the US cause they can't attack their enemy's.
If the US didn't support those country there would be etnic cleanings and wars you can't imagine.
Cause the fact that America supports those country's prevents hostile Islam country's like Pakistan, Iran and ex-Iraq to bomb israel or India to kingdom come with nuclear warheads or chemical warfair.

"Why do you think, extremists "attacked" the us on 09-11? Because they are fed up with the American attitude of telling everybody everywhere how to act and react. It is not because they "helped" some countries during and after 2nd World War that they can appropriate themselves the right to preach their kind of liberty everywhere."

they attacked 9-11 for like i said, America supports what they call infidels, the power of America's military supremacy is a humiliation to Arab pride.
They hate their freedoms
They hate their rights
They hate the none-believers
They hate their support
They hate it's democrasy
They hate their existence

That is their language, hate and war...

Terrorism is not only bound to America, they were gonna assasinate the Pope(Italy), crash into the Eiffel Tower(France), blow up a military base(Belgium)
The treath goes for every country's who is civilised.
And if i am one of their enemy's, then they are one of mine.

"American liberty = capitalism"

Where do you live?
do you have it SO bad, that you want communism or anything else?
everybody wants to earn money, and the more you work for it the more you earn... that's normal, even multinationals were once small people... you two have the right to become a multinational, you can study, you can work it's a free country nobody will hold you back in trying to achieve your goals, the only obstackles people account could be failure but that's not the fault of a goverment.

"they only think about how earning money in the easiest way.(First making war, than breaking everything and at last rebuild everything and ask the country itself to pay (see Marshall plan and now"

not all is payed by Iraqi people, but after WO II did we not pay for ourselves to rebuild as well?
and is it not a small cost, for it is only temporary, compared to the freedom that they now can enjoy

"Iraq could reconstruct easily their country themselves. They have enough ressources and money. They should have the liberty to chose themselves companies for their reconstruction"

The American companies are not just 'company's' they give Iraq the best company's they have. If it was to be rebuild just by the Iraqi people it would take MUCH longer for only half the quality... The money for the rebuilding can be compared to a 4 week sell of Iraqi oil, wich isn't much, but it saves alot of poor and homeless people, not only there but also in America, such deals must be made, for both country's are not all that for the moment. I feel money is of no issue when it means that people are being saved in Iraq as well in America, there is no exploitation... when it is for a good cause

"Anyway, for me it is certainly not a religious affair. It is not a war from the "goods" against the "bads". It is a war for world power"

Iraq ofcourse is not a religious dilemma but one of politics, no democratic country that respects itself can make deals with fascist dictators. And saddam was a dictator of the highest order, if he would live in the days of hitler he would of been an Allie of him.

I was happy when the Iraqi people sheared and thanked the UK and the US, with their tears and smiles of joy you just knew that what America had done was a good thing.

People like the Taliban, Saddam & Osama don't make this world any peacefuller. So it is neccesary to fight surpressers, dictators and terrorism for like i said in the beginning you have nothing if you have no rights.

[moods]

What I find readiculous about Bush Policies! Is the way he intervenes and take decisions so quick and at the same time CLOSE his eyes in some other more important matters.

For so many years USA did Nothing to solve the Middle East Crisis ! USA Close their eyes as nothing is happening there! What is more it goes on to suport Israel all the time against Palestinians.

The events happened at SEP 11 in USA happened because Of USA dirty policies. Why terrorist DO NOT attack Japan China germany AFRICA ? Their target is only USA . WHY? ARe the foreign policies of USA Just? fair? No They never had been!

When USA is going to interven in Middle East ? And create a Palestinian State . Palestinians deserve that!

[TheUndertaker]

"For so many years USA did Nothing to solve the Middle East Crisis ! USA Close their eyes as nothing is happening there!"

It is not up to a country to solve their crisises. Why don't you blame Poland, Letland or Canada for not solving them, then all the 1000ands other country's who did nothing shuttet their eyes as well?? now that's just hypocrit

Otherwise the American influence in the middle-east is enormeous, and there not their to 'solve'. That's the UN it's job (until 11 sept). The Americans are their to protect allies.
Cause if it wasn't for them who protected Israel, India, The Filliphines & The Saudië government these country's would be attacked by hostile Islam country's with no doubt... and such thing could only make the middle-east more unstable than it allready is. And there is nothing wrong with protecting allies.

"What is more it goes on to suport Israel all the time against Palestinians."

What's wrong about that?
Alltough Israel is sometimes brute in their way of taking care of bussiness but they are not against innocent Palestians or their religion.
If Israel attacks, then it's against terrorist leaders or militants who seek to destroy innoncent people.
When Palestinians attack, they attack innocent people... they aim for as much as possible.
And i rather support te killing of the terrorists for protection, then the killing of the innocent for political goals.

"The events happened at SEP 11 in USA happened because Of USA dirty policies."
That's crap, the same who constructed september 11 had plans for airplanes to fly into the Eifel Tower and assasinate the pope. these are not aimed at US targets, but Italian and France. Are you gonna clame as wel, they have dirty policies?
The west maybe not perfect but we do not have to be slaughtered for it.

"Why terrorist DO NOT attack Japan China germany AFRICA ?"

What? of course Americans is their main goal cause they are the world power and that's an insult to islam pride, they think that if they can take down America they can conquer the world with their Jihad, but they attack other country's as well... Trabelsi (Belgium), Water poisoning (Italy), Assasinating Pope (Italy), Disco bombing (Bali), Suicide Terrorism (Israel), Theater Hostage (Russia), Flying into the Eifel Tower (France), Air India Hijacking Flight 814(India), Pan Am 103 (Scotland), La Belle Disco Bombing (Germany), Rhein-Air Base Bombing (Germany), Bombing of TWO Flight 840 (Greece), Rome and Viena airport grenade massacre (Italy & Austria), Pakistan Attacks on Kashmir (India), Bombing of Buildings (Saudië Arabia), ethnic cleaning of thousands of non-muslims (Indonesië)

Terrorism is worldwide.
Not all of these mentioned happened but they were planned to happen found in documents by arrested Terrorists.
The intention is as worse as the act.

"When USA is going to interven in Middle East ? And create a Palestinian State . Palestinians deserve that!"

1. it's not up to the USA to do that
2. if they want a state why didn't they agree when they were given one in 1948? or in 1917?
3. As long as they support terrorism as a legal use of force they don't diserve a state.

[Nousch]

"It is not up to a country to solve their crisises. Why don't you blame Poland, Letland or Canada for not solving them, then all the 1000ands other country's who did nothing shuttet their eyes as well?? now that's just hypocrit"

What are you a contradictionary writer!!! In the first replies you are insisting on the right of the USA to attack a country due to terrorist reasons, and now you are telling that "it is not up to a country to solve their crisises". (Sadam in Iraq, can be considered as a dictator crises, so the people of Iraq could resolve their own crisis without the help of the US, they even did not ask for it). As I told you already before, people of Iraq did not ask for the intervention (I think still some US soldiers were killed in Iraq, isn't it?) Now, I can tell you that what the USA is doing, their are trying to resolve criseses(or rather create new crisises) and this only for their own peace and richness.

"Otherwise the American influence in the middle-east is enormeous, and there not their to 'solve'. That's the UN it's job (until 11 sept). The Americans are their to protect allies.
Cause if it wasn't for them who protected Israel, India, The Filliphines & The Saudië government these country's would be attacked by hostile Islam country's with no doubt... and such thing could only make the middle-east more unstable than it allready is. And there is nothing wrong with protecting allies."

I do not know if the American influence in Middle East is as big as you think. Yes, Americans are people of those countries and there are doing what is asked by Americans, but this only because in almost every country a part of the US army is based in those countries so they have no choice.
Americans have to protect their allies??? what allies, did they conclude a kind of pact? And why are you telling that it is up to the UN (only until 11 Sept)to protect people. What did change since the 11 Sept for the UN (the only thing I remember is that some airplanes crashed into the WTC towers and that people were killed due to a terrorist attack (as it happens also in other countries). But because it were appartments in the US which were attacked, it is the great drama in the world. But all people who are dying in other countries due to US attacks, nobody is thinking about that and innocent people were killed by Americans like innocent people were killed on the 11th September

"What? of course Americans is their main goal cause they are the world power and that's an insult to islam pride, they think that if they can take down America they can conquer the world with their Jihad, but they attack other country's as well... )"

World power... Yes, it has to come out of the mouth of an American. When telling things like this, it is not only offensing people of the Islam, I can tell you. Here in Europe people do not always like that attitude of the Americans, they believe that they can tell everybody to do what they want, just because you have good wapons and lots of money. But look, Bush does not even sign the agreements of Kyoto for the environment or he is not even able to give some money to create medicins for AIDS in Africa and to reduce the costs of it. You know,Europe is giving more money to help third world countries than the US (although you are very rich and you are putting tons of money in wapons...but money to help people which are exploited by the capitalist system of the US, they do not even think about that). World power... yes, by killing and attacking people in other countries, that is the only thing you have... You have to be more modest about your country...that is also one of the reason why people react as they react now.

OH, please and if you are telling us about all the terrorist attacks or possible ones, please check more carefully..;
Trabelsi (Belgium)... what city is that, it is not even a Flemish, nor French nor German name??? Didn't even hear about it...
Eiffel Tower in France...I am living in France, they never spoke about ideas of a presumed attack on the Eiffel Tower...Only thing they did is presuming what goals terrorists could have to attack... (YOu can also add nuclear sites than...)
I think you watched too much television in the US and they invented every possible attack just to brainwash you. It is like your red and green alerts of terrorism, it let me laugh a lot..; because there is always a big alert when something important has to happen in the US (a decision in the UN, or something else). You will see, before the elections of your new president, you will have lots of new and really big alerts...

"When USA is going to interven in Middle East ? And create a Palestinian State . Palestinians deserve that!"

1. it's not up to the USA to do that
2. if they want a state why didn't they agree when they were given one in 1948? or in 1917?
3. As long as they support terrorism as a legal use of force they don't diserve a state.

1 how that??? They are already doing that...they are already negotiating with Sharon and the Palestians.
2. A state. Palestians had their ground in that time (before 1948) Ground has been regiven to the Jews when they came to Israel after WWII. So the problem has not been resolved since then and the Israeli people are even taking ground in Palestina.
3 For the Palestians I do not really consider this as terrorist actions. It is not really good what they are doing but they have the righ to defend themselves against the country (Istrael) which is attacking them and which is taking their ground. They are not so powerfull as Israel (helped by the US) so for them every mean can be used.
It is like the US. On 11/09 you were attacked by terrorists, you went to Afghanistan to attack them (so If I would think like you do, we consider the action ss a terrorist action by the US, but Americans consider it as a right to defend themselves)... Be logic.

[TheUndertaker]

"What are you a contradictionary writer!!! In the first replies you are insisting on the right of the USA to attack a country due to terrorist reasons"

i'm not contradictionary, after 11 sempteber They made Terrorism a problem to the USA as well. They are not solving other people's problems (indirectly maybe), but they are solving their own.

"Sadam in Iraq, can be considered as a dictator crises, so the people of Iraq could resolve their own crisis without the help of the US"

Like the people in Cambodia solved Pol Pot i asume?
Or the people in Russa solved Stalin i asume?

"they even did not ask for it"

what where they crying when they were freed? did you even see those pictures?

"people of Iraq did not ask for the intervention"
Your naieve, go chat with a Iraqi, and ask him if he wants to trade these temporary problems with the reign of the Saddam regime.

"I think still some US soldiers were killed in Iraq, isn't it?"
by forces loyal to Saddam, those are minority's it's not like the entire population is revolting

"Now, I can tell you that what the USA is doing, their are trying to resolve criseses(or rather create new crisises) and this only for their own peace and richness."

They didn't come to Iraq just to free them alltough the operation was called that way, because the objective was to overthrow the government. Cause if freeing Iraq was the main cause then all country's where the population cries for freedom should be saved like Burma or Iran.

They came and freed Iraq for Saddam, for the threath that he was. for Amerika and his allies in the middle-east

"this only because in almost every country a part of the US army is based in those countries so they have no choice."

America isn't a dictature, and the middle-east isn't a puppet anymore (referring to the cold war) they have no colony's and all country's are independent
if their are army's based like in Saudië-Arabia, then it's because terrorist aim to overthrow the Saudië government (because they give oil to the west).
By the way, overthrowing the Saudië government is one of Osama's main objectives. (destroying the economy of the west)

"Americans have to protect their allies??? what allies, did they conclude a kind of pact?"
No, like in the six day war in Israel where a handfull of middle-east country's declared war on it. America said
"Israel will not be alone"
Even since the 60s their relationship grew stronger
and the India-Pakistan conflict is a bit similar, just like any democratic country you choose the side of the most democratic, not those of a terrorist or dictator
no democratic country who respects itselfs negotiates with dictators.

"And why are you telling that it is up to the UN (only until 11 Sept)to protect people. What did change since the 11 Sept for the UN"

The UN are mostly diplomats, and even after 20 years of sanctions, warnings and wars Saddam haddend loosend his gruwesome grip on the country and was still capable to create and destroy. Saddam was a threat to Amerika and it's Allies and indirectly (it's neighbouring countrys) so if you count it all up. you can clearly see that by removing such a threat from power your one giant step closer to peace in the middle-east. You can't disagree on that.

"But because it were appartments in the US which were attacked, it is the great drama in the world. But all people who are dying in other countries due to US attacks, nobody is thinking about that and innocent people were killed by Americans like innocent people were killed on the 11th September"

Where? give me an example so i can discuss it.

"World power... Yes, it has to come out of the mouth of an American. When telling things like this, it is not only offensing people of the Islam, I can tell you. Here in Europe people do not always like that attitude of the Americans"

I'm not an American, i'm from Europe a Belgian
I don't like the attitude of Islam pride, i don't like the attitude of French sjovinism, i don't like Brussel sprouts...
Do i need to attack it because i don't like it?

"they believe that they can tell everybody to do what they want, just because you have good wapons and lots of money"
so, let them believe that, they know they can't do that... but they try, just like setting their aims high

"Bush does not even sign the agreements of Kyoto for the environment or he is not even able to give some money to create medicins for AIDS in Africa and to reduce the costs of it."
Are we discussing Iraq? or reasons to hate Bush/America? cause it looks like you want to go that way.
How many money did Osama give to family's without no father, mother or child thx to his costs?

"You know,Europe is giving more money to help third world countries than the US (although you are very rich and you are putting tons of money in wapons..."

So, if Europe was in problems, we would have no defence i have no shame in counting on American military if we ever get in trouble.

and i know Europe is giving much money to welfare, but their are other world powers then America who are nothing compared to Europeans, like Russia, China and Japan
I don't see you Judging them.

"but money to help people which are exploited by the capitalist system of the US, they do not even think about that). World power... yes, by killing and attacking people in other countries, that is the only thing you have..."
America attacked Kosovo, Afghanistan & Iraq not by random chance. They picked them because they had serious reasons, they where serious threats and if the people were freed the people wouldn't even revolt.

"You have to be more modest about your country...that is also one of the reason why people react as they react now."
I'm Belgian and live in Belgian as well! The only way i react this way is because people like you who sees terrorism as heroism.

"Trabelsi (Belgium)... what city is that, it is not even a Flemish, nor French nor German name??? Didn't even hear about it... "
Trabelsi is the guy who was going to blow up 'kleine brogel' or 'petit brogel'.
He was send by Osama Bin Laden wich he had met 5 times personally.

"Eiffel Tower in France...I am living in France, they never spoke about ideas of a presumed attack on the Eiffel Tower...Only thing they did is presuming what goals terrorists could have to attack..."

Check your sources...
http://www.afrol.com/Headlines/2001_02/17_alg.htm

"(YOu can also add nuclear sites than...)"
See Trabelsi and Kleine Brogel
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...16/wtrab16.xml

"I think you watched too much television in the US and they invented every possible attack just to brainwash you"

I'm not brainwashed, you saw to much television just to think that everyone is out to brainwash

"It is like your red and green alerts of terrorism, it let me laugh a lot..; because there is always a big alert when something important has to happen in the US (a decision in the UN, or something else)."

Politics everywhere in the earth are slime, every bureaucrasy even the French and the Belgians... But because they are slime doesn't mean they are always wrong.

"1 how that??? They are already doing that...they are already negotiating with Sharon and the Palestians."

Then why do you ask WHY they are NOT intervening?
now it's you who is contradictionary
so you admit they are helping, alltough it is not their duty to do so.
So we are agreeing on this, i presume?

"2. A state. Palestians had their ground in that time (before 1948) Ground has been regiven to the Jews when they came to Israel after WWII. So the problem has not been resolved since then and the Israeli people are even taking ground in Palestina."
Again check your facts
Jews have always lived in Palestina, it's only thx to WO II that the immigration was enormeous. And the UN authorities at the time wanted to granted a state to the palestians as well, they declined it and layed war upon Israel.

here are some sites, for you

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/unupbook...e/80859E05.htm
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ear...ist_people.php

it didn't even have Palestian population, if you read the last one

"3 For the Palestians I do not really consider this as terrorist actions. It is not really good what they are doing but they have the righ to defend themselves against the country (Istrael)"

If they want to defend to a political ideology they may, they have that right, but not in the form of terrorism that is cowardly killing innocent people.
Do it like in Africa or other parts of the world and start guerrilla's so Israel can now what they are up against.
Or do like in Burma or India and start peacefull symbolic protests with thousands of followers. It would bring peace much easyer than you think if they did it that way.

"which is attacking them and which is taking their ground. They are not so powerfull as Israel (helped by the US) so for them every mean can be used."
They took their occupation ground, JUST because they ATTACKED them, check your history again please.
And Israel is indepented it doesn't ask money or use money on behalf of the US. It went and became a powerful state entirly on its own.

"On 11/09 you were attacked by terrorists, you went to Afghanistan to attack them (so If I would think like you do, we consider the action ss a terrorist action by the US, but Americans consider it as a right to defend themselves)... Be logic"
I'm a logic, if a murdered killed your sister, child or mother and is out to kill you, you don't let him walk around do you?
You would tell the police.

Well here they asked the highest authority in the country (the taliban) give me the murderer please.
But the police was corrupted and supported the criminals and his actions. So the authority chose the same fate as the people he supported.
Mass murders of any kind must be brought to justice, you can just let Osama walk away with 3000 deads just because HE thinks what he has doen was the right thing.

[moods]

USA had the right to intervene to Iraq (According to Bush Administration) and change The Sadam Regime. With the same Logic USA have the right to intervene to Middle East ( ie make war with Israel) and establish by Force a Palestinian State. Thats the same rational and logic ! Thats a Just and fair action to be done by USA .

You said that American influence in Middle East is enormous ! Well If it is enormous then We have not seen any result or no Effect.BUt let me correct you . If there was any kind of Americans influence on M.E This has been INEFECTIVE and INEFICIENT.

Undertaker:
"The UN are mostly diplomats, and even after 20 years of sanctions, warnings and wars Saddam haddend loosend his gruwesome grip on the country and was still capable to create and destroy. Saddam was a threat to Amerika and it's Allies and indirectly (it's neighbouring countrys) so if you count it all up. you can clearly see that by removing such a threat from power your one giant step closer to peace in the middle-east. You can't disagree on that. "

At one time you said that its up to UN Organisation to intervene to Middle East and solve the crisis And its not Up to USA. And When the time comes to Iraq you said Its up to USA to take actions and not the UN. Im quite confused on the Role of UN actually. UN is there and its Funded to serve a Purpose . USA SHould Not take decisions that its the responsibility of the UN organisation. USA actions have eliminated the role of UN. I agree that UN should get stronger and take more radical actions when they are necessary even using violence. So you suggest that Current UN Organisation is Ineffective right?

Although USA support Freedom of Speech and Human rights etc
It Has Done Nothing to support the basic human rights of palestinian people . I guess Palestinians Have no OIL Resources right? If there are some Organisations there in Palestine Its mainly because they have no Other option Left . Other forms of claiming their rights would be Ineffective ! USa went further and classified Israel as a main Ally to serve their brutal selfish interest in M E.

Its SO SAD to see a Country which supports FREEDOM of Speech and HUMAN RIGHTS to behave in such a MANNER.

Rest Assured that other countries like Poland , Canada as you mentioned Do not behave in such a selfish manner . and therefore they do not have to Face Terror activities in their OWN LAnd They have Peace!

USA DO NOT CLAIM THAT YOU SUPPORT FREEDOM AND HUMAN RIGHTS AND AT THE SAME TIME VIOLATING THESE PRINCIPLES

[TheUndertaker]

"USA had the right to intervene to Iraq (According to Bush Administration) and change The Sadam Regime. With the same Logic USA have the right to intervene to Middle East ( ie make war with Israel)and establish by Force a Palestinian State."

Palestine is no threat to the US, neither is Israel
for what reason should they make war with them?
Unlike Saddam who was a serious threat in arms, in propaganda and in economics.

"Thats the same rational and logic ! Thats a Just and fair action to be done by USA"

no it's not, compared to Saddam Hussein all other dictators and opressors in the middle-east are saints.

"You said that American influence in Middle East is enormous !"
Yes, it is enormeous, but they are not their like UN peace forces, if their are troops then they are 'protect' forces.
And are not out to solve any conflict. (like in Saudië)
Even so, America has been enormesly involved in the Israel-Palestine conflict, in wich no other country in the world has dared to speak about the subject not even you holy france or even the united kingdom.
America has offered allready more than 4 different peace deals. How many have your country done?
maybe America isn't always effective, but at least they try!

"At one time you said that its up to UN Organisation to intervene to Middle East and solve the crisis And its not Up to USA."

Yes for 20 long years it was the UN it's job to get Saddam out of power by sanctions... they have failed.
After september the 11th such threats couldn't be ignored any longer, cause the world power has it's weaknesses.
So America persisted to destroy those who want to destroy them. It's that simple.

"UN is there and its Funded to serve a Purpose."
Yes of course, but the UN is not a world dictature
it is sort of a World Courthouse, where you drop your problems and the jury of all the nations drops a vote on what they think of the problem. "for it" or "against it."
But like France & Russia some country only voted for self interest. "Let Saddam rule and kill, as long as WE WE WE get our oil from iraq"

"USA SHould Not take decisions that its the responsibility of the UN organisation."
Kosovo & Afghanistan where also wars without UN aprovel. I didn't hear you complain then.

"I agree that UN should get stronger and take more radical actions when they are necessary even using violence. So you suggest that Current UN Organisation is Ineffective right?"
Of course and not only me, this subject about UN involved how beautiful the concept maybe. Has always been discussed for it's lack of effectivenes.

"Although USA support Freedom of Speech and Human rights etc It Has Done Nothing to support the basic human rights of palestinian people"
That are their constitution laws, those don't go internationally like they need to spread them in every land across the globe like a religion... your comparing the US with the UN.
Cause your country support those laws also, why don't the french make peace in Palestine?
Do you have an excuse for that also?

"Palestinians Have no OIL Resources right? If there are some Organisations there in Palestine Its mainly because they have no Other option Left"
Israel also has no OIL
Kosovo also did have no OIL

If they w