ENGLISH PATRIOT WEBSITE

[England_Expects]

If you're a member of e-england, I hope you are as patriotic as myself. I f you would like to talk, discuss and debate with other fellow English patriots sign up with this fantastic site http://www.crossofstgeorge.net . Tell mw what you think of it.

[voltaire]

I'd like to know what your views are on:

1) What qualifies someone as "English" in your view.

2) Your views on immigration and asylum policy.

3) Your views on the EU.

I look forward to your reply.

V

[Shevchenko]

Voltaire:

http://www.crossofstgeorge.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=15

Seems quite sane, especially when compared to some VCI boards.

[voltaire]

Actually it does look interesting, Shev.

I certainly wasn't trying to make nasty insinuatuions about anyone (trust me, if I'd thought it was some sort of racist site the post would have gone already ).

Actually what I was wondering was whether the guy who did the original post was in the UKIP? The stuff written there would seem to reasonate with them and I understand that they're seeking new ways of getting their message across.

Just Curious

V

[England_Expects]

Voltaire, let me first assure you that I am not a member of the UK Independance Party,I gave the link to Cross of St George for purely patriotic reasons. I have also set up a link to this site from CofSG.
My purpose is to unite patriots in discussion, debate and to extend interaction of patriots among a number of forums.
1) What qualifies someone as "English" in your view

An English person, in my oppinion, is a person whom possesses a passport for the United Kingdom and who more importantly, when asked for their nationality, calls themself English. Their grasp and understanding of English traditions, culture and heritage should also be present. Of course, their willingness to fly the St George's Cross and celebrate St George's day is a major factor in who I class as English. English is not just a nationality, it's a way of life.

2) Your views on immigration and asylum policy.

My views on these issues are to the point. People who enter Great Britain illegally, should not be able to claim asylum while they stay in the UK. Applications should only be processed while they remain outside of the UK's four nations.
Able bodied Iimigrants should not be able to claim benefits for lack of work until they complete a 12 month probation period, in which thay must show that they are keen to work.
All successful immigrant applicants should undergo a rigorous citizenship period, in which thay learn about English culture, Language, history and also instate atleast a small sense of patriotism in their adopted country.

3) Your views on the EU.

I have strong views on the EU, many of which oppose Tony Blair's European ideals.
I am totally against any constitution between member states, I want to be ruled by a British government and not by European Beurocrats. I don't necessarily believe we should pull out of the EU, but that we should cut our funding and take a more of a side-line. It's time for our political leaders to stand up for Britian and Britian's interests. There is no need for a constitution and so why should we disadvantage ourselves?
I'm also quite frankly against the Euro, we should keep the old pound and continue with our prosperous economy.

If you have any other questions you'd like to ask, I'm more then willing to answer them. What are your views on the issues?

[voltaire]

Sure, it's only fair that I give my views too, so here goes


1) What qualifies someone as "English" in your view

My own view is that I partly agree with your first sentence - that someone who holds an english passport and calls themself "english" is english. I'd also say that it can be the case that someone (say born outside the UK to English parents but without English nationality) can be English without the passport. Also, people are more than welcome to "adopt" England by gaining citizenship here.


2) Your views on immigration and asylum policy.

Two words - open borders. If they're running away from a war we should give them shelter. If they're looking for work we should give them a job and invite them to contribute to the economy. We should house them and take care of their children under the umbrella of our shared humanity.

Oddly enough the Americans have a good quote - "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled
masses...." etc


3) Your views on the EU.

I am in favour of wider and deeper European co-operation particularly as the alternative seems to be uni-polar US economic and poltical domination. The UK isn't big enough to stand alone - it needs friends.

V

[voltaire]

BTW I wasn't trying to be antagonistic by suggesting you were in the UKIP. You'd still have been more than welcome here even if you were a member

V

[Shevchenko]

I'll stick my oar in, Voltaire:

Originally posted by voltaire
I'd like to know what your views are on:

1) What qualifies someone as "English" in your view.

2) Your views on immigration and asylum policy.

3) Your views on the EU.

I look forward to your reply.

V

Question 1: I am in agreement with Mr Expects on the criteria for being English.
BTW despite me being 'biologically' a bacon-gobbler I fit them.

Question 2 and 3 I will answer in full tomorrow, but make one observation:
Apart from a tiny minority (ie educated types such as Tony Benn or Boris Johnson) the chances of a British politician being willing, or even able, to give an answer to those two questions is virtually zero.

So hats off to both of you

[voltaire]

Merci mon ami

V

[England_Expects]

Thanks Shevchenko, looking forward to your 'answer in full'.

[Last_Knight]

1) To me an English person has to have been born England. Who holds an English Passport, speaks the English language, understands English culture, respects the English nation, respects the history and finally has at least 4 generations inside the English nation.

To me the passport alone means nothing.

2)Immigration and Asylum should be stopped for those that aren't willing to work. No more Asylum claims should be allowed, and all those that are found here illegally deported straight away.
Immigrants and Asylum seekers should not be given benefits. Immigrants MUST be able to speak English. An immigrant how is found guilty of ANY crime should be deported.

3) The EU is a waste of money, a waste of time and is increasingly an alliance against the British nation. We should withdraw from the EU as it holds now REAL benefit, in the short or long run. Trade lanes can be kept open without a signed document signing over our rule to them.

[voltaire]

Originally posted by Last_Knight
1) To me an English person has to have been born England. Who holds an English Passport, speaks the English language, understands English culture, respects the English nation, respects the history and finally has at least 4 generations inside the English nation.

Do they need life membership of the Tory Party and the League of Empire Loyalists too?

They have to "understand English Culture"? Well I'll gladly volunteer to take a group of Asylum seekers out on a Saturday night to drink 15 pints of Carlsberg, have a fight and then eat kebabs before throwing up on the way home, but I can't really see it being that educative an experience

The trouble here is that we end up discussing an idealised version of England that doesn't exist any more. It's like when ex-pats and diasporeans refer back to an England of cricket on the village green, warm beer, policemen giving naughty kids a clip round the ear etc. They idealise it to give themselves a platform to criticise wherever they are living now (although it's noticeable that none of them actually would live in the UK ).

Our minority communities are a part of the UK, as much as any white person. Even in the admittedly rather facile example I gave, you will of course be aware that immigrants gave us that great British Saturday night institution, the Large Doner with Salad...

2)Immigration and Asylum should be stopped for those that aren't willing to work. No more Asylum claims should be allowed, and all those that are found here illegally deported straight away.
Immigrants and Asylum seekers should not be given benefits. Immigrants MUST be able to speak English. An immigrant how is found guilty of ANY crime should be deported.

Here we are simply going to disagree. People who have a legitimate claim to be in fear of their lives should have the right to claim asylum in the UK. They (and the appallingly-labelled "economic migrants" who have come seeking work) should be given full support in seeking work and integration in the community. That should include the right to full state benefits, access to job centres, schooling, ESOL classes, the full works.

And we cannot operate a de facto apartheid in our penal system. Punishments for crimes should be universal, regardless of the offender's background.

3) The EU is a waste of money, a waste of time and is increasingly an alliance against the British nation. We should withdraw from the EU as it holds now REAL benefit, in the short or long run. Trade lanes can be kept open without a signed document signing over our rule to them.

Signing over our rule to who? "The Europeans"? The European Council of Ministers is not separate from national governments, it is composed of them. The European Parliament has a large number of UK members, all of whom (including the Tories and the permatanned Colonel Blimps from UKIP) co-operate in more or less organised blocs with parliamentarians from other nations.

In any case, even the most federal interpretations of the EU (of which I'm a supporter btw) categorically do not propose the abolition of national governments. Federalism is exactly that - autonomous structures operating under an umbrella.

Finally, the EU seems pretty good to me, if it means enforcing work-time directives that stop employers exploiting their workforces, bringing in health and safety regulations to drag British industrial regulation out of the Victorian era, and implementing a single currency that sets up a valuable geo-political/economic bloc to balance the dollar. If defending British interests means opposing such sensible measures (and I don't believe that it does) then mine's a plate of l'escargot and a glass of chenin blanc, mon ami

V

[Last_Knight]

If you class the English culture as the actions of the youths on a Saturday night, you are not one to understand what England is about. A very concentrated attack it seems on the nation that houses you with little quarrel.
The people who remember the days when the streets could be walked safely, and leave their doors unlocked at night look back on a time when England was a safe nation, a nation that had the worlds respect. You find it wrong for these people the place this used to be as opposed to what it is now?

It's funny how the country began falling during the 80s when the borders started to open up. What Britain is now, isn't British culture, it is the culture of the immigrants.

Today it is full of people like you, people below you, and people that agree with you. All of which insult the nation and disrespect the nation. A nation that gives them a home. Do you find the St. George racist?


It's nice and easy for you to want more Asylum Seekers coming over, it is your people we would be letting in after all. You wouldn't mind the government being bled, if you ever get in trouble you can fall on your ethnic background as support.
It goes for your EU support also, you want the Sterling abolished. A symbol of Britain which is stronger than the Euro as it is. It's good for you if EU are in power, they want open borders, as you do.
The fact that the EU runs on a democractic system of sorts negates the amount of British MEPs when the Franco-German alliance keeps Britain out of the picture. If you want to be run by Germany, France or Belgium go live there. They aren't as soft as the British government though, are they?

[voltaire]

Originally posted by Last_Knight
If you class the English culture as the actions of the youths on a Saturday night, you are not one to understand what England is about. A very concentrated attack it seems on the nation that houses you with little quarrel.
The people who remember the days when the streets could be walked safely, and leave their doors unlocked at night look back on a time when England was a safe nation, a nation that had the worlds respect. You find it wrong for these people the place this used to be as opposed to what it is now?

...and cricket on the village green, bobbies giving little boys a clip round the ear for scrumping apples, jumpers for goalposts... that wasn't English history, that was Dixon of Dock Green LOL

Anyone who hankers back to those days either wasn't there, or has a very selective memory. They clearly don't remember the days of malnourished kids, TB, Typhoid, rickets, poverty wages and injustice that ruled while the sun never set on the Empire. The same "lefties" who people like you castigate for being liberal towards immigrants have virtually abolished child illiteracy and massively reduced childhood deaths in this country, and virtually eradicated at least a dozen diseases that routinely endangered life and limb before the 1945-51 Labour government passed its laws on education and the NHS.

The "nation that is housing me" has little choice in the matter given that I'm a native born UK citizen btw. Whether the hard right like it or not, being a bigot isn't a condition of Englishness.

It's funny how the country began falling during the 80s when the borders started to open up. What Britain is now, isn't British culture, it is the culture of the immigrants.

Today it is full of people like you, people below you, and people that agree with you. All of which insult the nation and disrespect the nation. A nation that gives them a home. Do you find the St. George racist?

You clearly don't know very much about the history of immigration. The borders didn't "start to open up" in the 80s, immigrants have been arriving in the UK for centuries. And the reason why unemployment, etc, rose in the 80s was largely because of a decline in UK industrial jobs caused by right-wing poster girl Margaret Thatcher.

Actually what people like you will never accept is that the nationalist right-wing doesn't have a monopoly over English culture, either in definition or practice. And no, I don't think the St George flag is racist, I just feel sad to see racist groups trying to claim it.

It's nice and easy for you to want more Asylum Seekers coming over, it is your people we would be letting in after all. You wouldn't mind the government being bled, if you ever get in trouble you can fall on your ethnic background as support.

What was the process that led you to to this conclusion? "Duhh he doesn't agree wiv me, he must be one ov those Asylum Seekers wot I read about" Jeeezzus...

I'm a white UK citizen, born, bred and educated in England. Not that it should have the slightest bearing on the argument at all. Although as I say, it does reveal a certain something about the way your mind works.

It goes for your EU support also, you want the Sterling abolished. A symbol of Britain which is stronger than the Euro as it is. It's good for you if EU are in power, they want open borders, as you do.
The fact that the EU runs on a democractic system of sorts negates the amount of British MEPs when the Franco-German alliance keeps Britain out of the picture. If you want to be run by Germany, France or Belgium go live there. They aren't as soft as the British government though, are they?

Bla bla bla the Germans bla bla bla the French. World war two finished nearly 60 years ago and the Battle of Agincourt was rather before that. People who believe the EU is some kind of Germano-French plot to "take over" the UK don't have any form of political knowledge beyond the ravings of right-wing ideologues in a UK press whose main Euro-Sceptic "UK patriot" bastion is (paradoxically) owned by an Australian tycoon who lives in the USA. Funnily enough that never seems to bother the "UK out ov Yurp" tendency though.

V

[Ronbo]

Originally posted by voltaire

...and cricket on the village green, bobbies giving little boys a clip round the ear for scrumping apples, jumpers for goalposts... that wasn't English history, that was Dixon of Dock Green LOL

Anyone who hankers back to those days either wasn't there, or has a very selective memory. They clearly don't remember the days of malnourished kids, TB, Typhoid, rickets, poverty wages and injustice that ruled while the sun never set on the Empire. The same "lefties" who people like you castigate for being liberal towards immigrants have virtually abolished child illiteracy and massively reduced childhood deaths in this country, and virtually eradicated at least a dozen diseases that routinely endangered life and limb before the 1945-51 Labour government passed its laws on education and the NHS.

The "nation that is housing me" has little choice in the matter given that I'm a native born UK citizen btw. Whether the hard right like it or not, being a bigot isn't a condition of Englishness.

You clearly don't know very much about the history of immigration. The borders didn't "start to open up" in the 80s, immigrants have been arriving in the UK for centuries. And the reason why unemployment, etc, rose in the 80s was largely because of a decline in UK industrial jobs caused by right-wing poster girl Margaret Thatcher.

Actually what people like you will never accept is that the nationalist right-wing doesn't have a monopoly over English culture, either in definition or practice. And no, I don't think the St George flag is racist, I just feel sad to see racist groups trying to claim it.

What was the process that led you to to this conclusion? "Duhh he doesn't agree wiv me, he must be one ov those Asylum Seekers wot I read about" Jeeezzus...

I'm a white UK citizen, born, bred and educated in England. Not that it should have the slightest bearing on the argument at all. Although as I say, it does reveal a certain something about the way your mind works.

Bla bla bla the Germans bla bla bla the French. World war two finished nearly 60 years ago and the Battle of Agincourt was rather before that. People who believe the EU is some kind of Germano-French plot to "take over" the UK don't have any form of political knowledge beyond the ravings of right-wing ideologues in a UK press whose main Euro-Sceptic "UK patriot" bastion is (paradoxically) owned by an Australian tycoon who lives in the USA. Funnily enough that never seems to bother the "UK out ov Yurp" tendency though.

V

What? Of course, the EU is a Franco-German creation! DUH! Where have you been the last few years? Of course, the Nazis don't rule in either France or Germany today, but both countries are socialist welfare states that want Britain as a member so their Eurocrats can loot the British economy to pay for French and German unemployment benefits.