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#1
5th July 2002, 19:23
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Salam
i wont say any thing ........ just SEE THESE PICS they will speak for them selves PEACE http://www.ummah.net/unity/palestine/
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#2
5th July 2002, 22:22
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Sorry Truth, too cheap to buy.
I have seen many pics before, much worse than these. They were labelled: "horrors done by Muslims". Who proves that those victims are Palestinians mutilated by Jews? It could as well be Jews massacred by Arabs, Russians killed by Chechnians, Serbians killed by Kosovarians. They could have been taken on every spot of the world, a few weeks ago or many years. But these pictures, we all now when and where they were taken.    Did the 3000 men and women died because of they occupied another land? Because they had killed someone? Or because of a few mad men in name of an imaginary god for an imaginary reason? Or did they just die because some scum wanted to prove they wer capable to do it?
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#3
6th July 2002, 00:42
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It`s sad to hear that Rikbe ....
R u comparing what happend in NY, and what`s happining now in Palestine??? That misunderstanding is horrible to hear .... That is the effect of the Israeli media ...you wont hear ... If there was any one in the west could hear to us and understand our problems nothing of that would take place ... u said before that religion is the hope of desparated ... No one to hear .... all of u were in the Isreali side ...listining only to Isreal ...helping only Isreal ... smiling only in in Israels face ... with the passage of time there was no hope of u to change ur mind and look towards our feelings, and those feelings began to turn into hate towards u .... we want nothing from u , only to understand our suffers ... we want no aid, no military helps , but u were horribly heart-stoned , we can`t give up our lands and we can`t defend it in the same time.... can u imagine that ....how desparated should a people in this situation must be ??? but u refused and never showed a sign of sympathy .... if there was any one to blame for this tragedy , then it`s u ... It`s ur fault .... The freedom u r calling for is ur own freedom... the others must be all slaves if not for u then it`s for their desires ,and we refuse, here the hope of the disparated appears... there is no other solution , but to stay silent ... and that is impossible!!! _u should notice that there were no strong religious currencies in first half of the last centurie ... there were no strong feeling of god as it`s now and if there were no desparation that wont appears_.... I say again Rikbe ... really sad to say ...It`s the hope of the desparate ,,do u know now why the children r tought to hate u in our schools ??? because u don`t deserve to be loved ... because u have no hearts to talk to.... U declared u selves as our enemy by standing behind our enemy , then u must suffer .... that what Osama believes , and be sure that hundreds of thousands of the muslims believes in that, if not clearly then in their hearts, because they r afraid as u said .... there is an idea about the west here as a cold-booded-killers who don`t care about any one else but their selfish desires and destroying all human values for it`s sake... and they want to make us like them in the name of freedom and the human rights !!! do think with that vision towards u there won`t any terrorism against u?? aren`t u really like that ???if not .... why r u still supporting Isreal ??? I believe no, when I saw the reaction of Belgium and other countries towards our case I had some hope !!! I believe that all human beings can be changed so ...I the 18`s old hischool student from the uae decided to come to this forum and tell u about the truth ... u might feel it , and think about it!!! The other thing is that a true and pure muslim doesn`t lie, because he fears the punishment of god, even to his enemy !! do u think that I`m a liar now ??? do u think that those picture were taken in somewhere else and not in our homelands now ?? If u still do, then someone _if not God_ helps this humanity !!!
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#4
6th July 2002, 01:59
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My point is that with some pictures you can prove what you want, unless it is undoubtful clear where they were taken. Since 9/11 all over internet, people try to make us believe that 9/11 was done by Jews. Later that Americans bought it over themselves. Now with pictures from which the origin is difficult to prove, but affirming it is done by Israel. I apologize if I overreacted but I am just tired of people trying to manipulate. Other point is that this spiral of violence all over the world started when Palestinians started to hijack planes and killing people from all over the world. THEY brought it over themselves. Each time there is a new peace proposal, Palestinian terrorists intensify their attack on Israeli civilians, causing a new occupation of Palestinian territories by Israeli troops. Then the Palestinians claim that THEY are the victims. If you think that Bin Laden is fighting for the oppressed, you are very wrong. Bin Laden is a rich man and he has all the land he want. Why should he fight for the land people that are not even of his tribe? What he wants is more power, more money. In his family he is only one of the many sons of his father, almost nothing. What he is doing is not fighting but investing: investing in war so if he wins, he will be the hero, become president or king of Saudi Arabia and maybe a few other countries. He is using your religion against you, in his best interests. I believe you when you say a true Muslim does not lie ... to another true Muslim, it is in the Koran. But it is also in the Koran that against infidels everything is permitted.
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#5
6th July 2002, 03:54
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When I was in Belgium in October, I saw a special on the French speaking TV about Ben Laden. I was shoked to hear what his people from his own country said about what he and his soldiers (religous soldiers?)did to them. They said they were taking men with them away from their villages, killing women and children. I saw them being interviewed, should I think this was made up and not real?
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#6
6th July 2002, 14:16
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Quote:
like that headless baby!!! I was in the 6th grade when that happend... it was horrible to see !!! that was in 1996 when Isreal invaded Lebanon seeking for Hezbullah members!!!every thing was a target for the invaders at that time!! and this picture was taken in Qana _ I think the city was mentioned in the Bible _ in a building belongs the UN and the villagers used to hide there while isreal attacks !!! Israeli F-16 which bombed the building was photographed too ... If u notice : the UN troops camps are in the south of Lebanon only and not inside Isreal !!!  Quote:
even it seems a rubbish, but I don`t think that Isreal is too innocent, we should not forget the American warship "LIBIRITY" which was attacked by Israeli Forces in the red sea maybe in 1967 and that_as it was reported _ after a spying aircrafts went by them,that means they knew that it`s an American one, and there is a book talking about this event.... Quote:
 ...I understand the pressure ... because I believe that the public opinion in Belgium _in particular_ is targeted by Israeli media, and that was after suing that war criminal : Sharon....Quote:
but that was not the start of violence in the region !!! the first aggressions took place were by the troops of the haganah and the Aargon and other radical Zhionist groops.... cleaning the promised land of the dirties_ the Arabs_ !!! Quote:
Israeli occupation will never pull out ... because they believe that god gave them these lands ...and we wont let them take it ... because we don`t believe in their religion !!! tell me now what peace r u talking about ??? for the real peace ... destroying Isreal is the only way ... and I was surprised when jews themselves said that, and they hope _ as we all do _ that that happens without any bloodshed !!! any solution now is a resting time for the parties Quote:
any how that man is finished, and I don`t see any point of talking about him, but what I said in the reply above ... why his ideas r being accepted by the muslim people around the globe ... Quote:
a human is a human and a lie is a lie ...whenever it is said and whatever it is about ... it is still a sin !!! and that "every thing permitted against infidels" thing belongs to juadism ....not to Islam !!! we r not choesen by god ....and the other humans r animals and we have the right to do any thing to them while it`s a benefit for us... no, we r chosen by god to deliver his message to his creatures, the message of justice, mercy and other good value that we all love to see in our people... and we hope that we`ll be rewarded for that...in the judgement day ... so we don`t care about these worldy matters, so that, we don`t lie for their sake ... we care about the end of our brothers in humanity, we hate it to be in the hell, and we call them to the paradise by saying the truth... we r calling for the truth by the truth ... and when I call for u to stand to palestinian side, I call u to stand with the justice .. I hope u change ur mind some day ...Quote:
things that do not belongs to Islam in any way, and even some acts that Islam fought !!! If what that TV channel talking about really happend, then those people r our enemys as well as they r yours !!! the religous soldiers in Islam r a model of the values Islam is calling for ... not barbarians ... salam for every one
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#7
25th July 2002, 14:57
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so now you want to shock people with pictures?
the death of palestinians is horrible but so is the death of jews. you forgot to mention that israelis are dying too and i can show you pics too. where is the smartness? sorry for the palestinians that don't get their billions because arafat is a thief who blames israel in the poorness of his people. paaaalease try to see the justice and not from these pics, cuz they show horror not real justice.
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#8
15th August 2002, 13:07
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How do you dare to speak about justice ...
Israeli people are dying indeed, innumerable innocent people died the recent year ... Most of those innocent people are Palestinians ... And this time Israeli is the suppressor ... It all began with a f* bastard, alias Sharon, who found it necessary to offend all those palestinians to visit a holly place of them ... Israel has to stop whining about this war ... By electing Sharon, they have chosen for this **** ... Remember Sabra y Shatilla --> Sharon was the minister of defense at that time, and he signed a paper that allowed christian militias to slaughter the Palestinian people there ... Many Israeli people have been punished indeed for that war crime ... but the true responsable Sharon has become prime minister instead ... How's that possible ??? The media is changing, luckily ... In the past it was not done critisizing the Israeli Foreign Policy in Palestina and Libanon ... Only the hijackers of the plane were an issue in the media ... Now, you can see what the reaction of the Israeli Gouvernment is when people critisize them : 1. We are all called anti-semistics (I hope that is written right, but I don't think so ) 2. The media is denied to investigate what has happened ... Does anyone know why Israel is really levelling tne houses of the poor Palestinian people ? I'll tell you : A house is for arabs the most important thing in their lives, it's the only thing those poor people have ... By levelling those houses, the israeli army tries to hurt those people as much as possible ... They aren't levelling those houses because their are snipers ... A military investigator of the UN has investigated the case and tells us the houses were levelled AFTER the batlle had been fought ... Drop those ****ing settlements, those are illegal anyway ... Give back to the Palestinians what had been agreed after the 6 days war ... And don't use the Oslo treaty to proof that the Palestinian don't want peace ... I have never heard one Israeli telling why the Palestinian gouvernment hadn't accepted it ... Only 5% of all the fugitives would have been able to return to their homes ... Would you accept a treaty like that ???
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#9
15th August 2002, 16:39
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I understood the houses that are leveled were the ones of families of suicide killers. By punishing the families of suicide terrorists, Israel tries to stop the suicide bombings. Till now those families where rewarded by Iraq and Saudi Arabia for their sons dying as martyrs with an amount of 25 000 US$ and a free trip to Mecca for the whole. If potential suicide killers know that their families will suffer of their deed, they will think twice and their families will stop to encourage them do become killers.
Pierken, I suggest you study the history of Palestine and Israel in debt before you make foolish accusations. Especially the six days war. I suspect you were too young or not born at that moment, otherwise you would speak differently.
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#10
15th August 2002, 19:30
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You are probably right about the 6 days war ...
But you aren't about the houses ... The houses of innocent people have been destroyed too... Not only the houses of family of suicide bombers ... and that is a fact, and about that I'm sure ... thanks ! Foolish accusations ? The one about Sharon is certainly not a foolish accusations ... We will certainly meet eachother again about this topic ... Pierken
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#11
15th August 2002, 20:43
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This did not start with Sharon. Sharon is the result of what is happening the past 55 years.
Since 1947 the Arabs, not only the Palestinians, have been always very clear about what they wanted: the total destruction of Israel and extermination of all Jews. In 1967 Egypt, Jordan and Syria in a joined operation moved their armies towards Israel. Israel attacked and destroyed the air force of all three countries and drove the aggressors out of the Sinai, West bank and Golan heights. If you take a map you will see that the Israel from before 1967 did not have defendable borders. Syrian troops used to fire rockets into Israel from the Golan Heights, terrorist infiltrated via the West Bank and the Sinai. In all wars the price that the losers had to pay was to loose a part of their territory. In 1967 Jordan, Syria and Egypt were the losers. I think it is justified for Israel to keep the territories the conquered, also because if they don't, there is always the risk that the Arabs will attack again. However, Israel gave back the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace. The result was that the Egyptian president (sorry I forgot his name) was murdered. Due to the 1967 war, the Palestinians of the West Bank fled to the East Bank, of Jordan. Where they tried to seize power and caused a civil war. The Jordan king then chased them back to the West Bank. If the Palestinians would only attack military targets they would have my sympathy, but they murder civilians from every country. Strategically they obtain nothing, they kill people just for propaganda. Those terrorists are not a majority of the Palestinians but the majority of Palestinians support and protect them. Palestinians that really want peace with Israel are murdered also. There are different reasons why I defend the Jews. One is that they fight to survive, the Palestinians only for land. Another reason is that Israel is a democracy and Palestine will be another country ruled by Muslim fundamentalists. Third is that if the Palestinians win, the war will NOT stop. It will become a war between the different terrorist groups, each willing to seize the power. And last but not least, everywhere in the world were an important number of Muslims live, people are slaughtered. From Nigeria to the Philippines. From Sudan to Chechnya, there is terrorism. A belt of blood from West Africa to South Asia. One thing in common: ISLAM. The was Israel - Palestine is not a war, only a battle in a war between Religious authoritarianism and Democracy. The war between Modern Ages and Dark Ages.
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#12
15th August 2002, 21:26
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Sorry ...
But ISLAM is not equal to violence ... Some people use the ISLAM in their own benefit to justifie wars ... But, like the bible, the koran needs to be interpreted ... Some people are eager to find justification for their crimes in it ... and sorry ... but what's happening now in Israel is against every proportion ... I only ask one thing to happen : that not only those suicide bombers are punished, but also some officers in the Jewish army ... I believe that would be justified ... But I doubt that this will ever happen ... BTW: Sharon caused the recent intifada ... There's no question about that ! It would be quite ignorant to deny that ...
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#13
15th August 2002, 21:59
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In every war, innocents are killed, most of the time more innocents then guilty ones. But Israel did not start the war.
I agree that Islam is not equal violence but it is easily interpreted for justifying violence, the same as Christianity was in the Middle ages. The Koran says that taxes may be collected from infidels and it is allowed to make them to slaves. If they don't pay taxes, then they may be killed. There are many verses about infidels going to hell, being disgraceful in the eyes of Allah. Not very difficult to turn this into: killing the infidels is wanted by Allah. Islam is not worse than Judaism or Christianity were in ancient times and middle ages. BUT I LIVE NOW. BTW how do you want to punish suicide killers? Besides, are the the Israeli worse than Belgian socialists and green communists? They also level houses, don't they? And in Belgium there are no snipers or terrorists. A solution for the Middle East crisis woould be resolved immediatly by Vera Dua: she would declare the West Bank green zone and level all houses. Nobody would protest.
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#14
15th August 2002, 22:39
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Quote:
I meant the leaders of Hamas & other terrorist groups ... It's quite stranged to compare this with what happens in Belgium ... But I suppose that was irony, wasn't it ? I agree about the rest you stated in your post ... Interpretation ... Sometimesyou wonder if we wouldn't be better of without religion ... But then again, even as an atheist, I think it's a necessary thing to hold on for certain people ... Nice talking to you ... Have to go now Have to study tomorrow 
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#15
15th August 2002, 23:02
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Quote:
 It would be better without religion, that is sure but too many people would be lost without it. So I think it will last for another 1000 years or so. But in the end it will disppear completely. But fundamentalism, Islam, Christian, Jedaism or whatever should be outlawed everywhere. I liked the discussion too, only, I have been dicussing this whole thing so many times the past months in another forum that I am getting tired of it. If you are interested, take a look in forum of russia.com. There are and were many discussions about the subject. Studying is fun, when you are not obliged to do it.
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