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#1
10th June 2003, 14:39
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look mate i am not a religious person but your words are not respetcful!!!it is your free choice to accept or not but at least you must have respect!!!
you are insulting a religion which has over 1 bilion believers!!!you think that your bliefs certainly correct but the beliefs of over 1 bilion people is wrong!!!now i can't make you believe in something cause you are prejudiced and you are in a wrong that makes you believe in your ideas has the most sensinble 1- first of all there is a creator you must accept this there is a super system in world and the other created objects this magical system can't be coincidence if it is there must be mistakes!!! you can see it on your body it is so easy to see: why is your hairs on your head? why isnt it in your mouth? why is your eyes on your head why it isnt on your ass or under your foot? why the cosmos has a system like this why the cosmos get bigger everyday? why the earth has atmoshphere and ozone layer? and why the others has no? why only the mankind can think? and why the theory of eisntein says energy transformaiton,energy cant be dissapear? think about these all "god gave brain to use not to carry it" 2- what you say is wrong about islam!!! as a start you are not objecitve and believeable!!! did you really search about Muhammed? Muhammed was not robber or childmolestor and the girl was'nt 9 she is 12 and but you are talking with a terrible hatred!!! adult age is intested with sun i hope you know this so in some countries the adult age 16 today and in some of them 20 it is changeable so in my country it is you must over 18 to get driving license but some of the other countries it is 16!!! and arabia is hot place you can see sun in all seasons!!! Muhammed marriaged with a girl you are right about this but she was not 9 and you are not objective cause you talking with a terrible hatred you must search the marriage age in arabia in that times!!! was muhammed the first person who marriaged with a girl 12 years old? you were talking with your hatred and with prejudice you are not justice against to Muhammed!!! Muhammed married with 9 women you are right but you are not telling us its full story unfortunately this shows us you trying to despise islam and Muhammed!!! 3-listen now muhammed married with only Aysha as a wife and the others has nobody and has no relatives they were poor and undefenced persons. and the other reason is publishing islam(you will say what is this publishing islam: for example; when you see UFO or when you see creature from spaces who will believe you? of course firstly your family will believe you when you wanna share a thing with others your first supporters will be your family) and muhammed marriaged with 9 women and this is a special event for the prophets. if muhammed was pervert and robber like your belief he could select rich women and beautifull women, he could select virgins but the women that he marriaged was poor and undefenced and they had a babies with them Muhammed became a father for them muhammed looked after them. 4-why you call muhammed as a robber? i really cant understand this!!! are you mad? robbers must be greedy persons if muhammed was a robber why people called him as "emin" in arabia all people called him as emin (emin means trustable person) do you think you know muhammed better than the people who lived while muhammed in arabia and while muhammed alive asnwer me please? people called him as emin because he never told lies he never steal and he never swear and he never did anything bad if muhammed was a bad person like your belief why did he forbid slavery? why did he spent his all money to get freedom of slaves? and why did he set slaves free? why did he said slavery is forbidden? why did he said all these things? how can a robber spent his all money to set people free? he was not a robber this is sure if he is a bad person he must think he is more superrior than the others but he shared his camel with a slave he said in the sight of god all people equal and they ride camel with order as equal in a desert how can a bad person make these all? are you really mad? Muhammed said all the people created with the same rights he said race,language,nation and colour of humans is not important, firstly islam forbid the slavery but look at near future of the world what did happened to black people? black people degrated by others their freedom stolen by others!!! are these all nice ? did muhammed do a bad thing by forbidding slavery and by saying all we are people ,all we are same? Muhammed said none of the persons superior than the others by their appearance and by their name. muhammed said superiority only in belief. he said none of the arabian superior than the other nation even he said to his daughter "you have no difference by being my daughter." these events show us muhammed was equitable and justice!!! 5-islam is not ideology islam is a religion which send by god. yeah everyone can say his ideology is right but islam is not ideology and it is easy to see islam is true if you are not prejudiced(but undportunately you are) islam has miracles to show its reality. now there is only one type of holly quran it is still same with the begining one of the qurans from begining still exist in a museum in Istanbul this is great proof about its originallity islam has differs from the others because the others changed bye people(judaism and christianity) their original form changed by people but islam is different islam never says muhammed is son of god like the others muhammed says he is only a messenger of god. muhammed is a prophet he is not a god or a son of god. holly quran has lots of miracles quran writes the shape of earth and the structures of elements and seas, quran tells the creation of cosmos and bigbang and quran send to world in 7th century. if islam is not true how can quran know these all? nobody can know the shape of world and bigbang in 7th century only god can know!!! if quran is book which fabricate the knowledges how can quran know these things in 7th century as correct!!! quran is a holly book and send by god and it tells the truhts!!! if muhammed is a liar how can he know this true things,muhammed wasn't know reading but god made him reading!!! 6-"Why is that most of the Islam countries are underdeveloped and primitive" most of islam countries are underdeveloped you are right but not primitive!!! and you can't accuse islam because of this islam is not opppose to science opposite of it the first order of quran is "study(read)" and muhammed says "if science in china go there to bring it" it takes 8 months to go china from arabia in 7th century and 8 months returning totally 16 months!!! islam attached importance to science. lots of book translated to arabian from antic greece and islam science was super between the years 800-1400 in 1400 after mongol attack on anatolia,turks and muslims .After mongols destroyed all the archives and scientists they burned observatories and labrootires in anatolia they burned libraries i can give you lots of muslim and turk scientist( avi cenna: turk doctor his books translated to french,english and german languages, that book read in univerties, avi cenna made some searchs on aristo metaphysic and improve it he was philosoph at the same time farabi: he was the founder of logaritm and alogarithm, Câbir İbn Hayyân :he was the firts chemist who claims the existence of elements, Ali kuşçu : he was builder of the firts steps of todays modern maths and at the same time he was one greatest astronomer he found the distance of planets between world,he made a sun calendar also and he found the mathematic coordinats of istanbul(parallel and meridians) battanî : he found the durations of season he calculate the time of solar eclipse and he found ecliptic slome between the world and ecliptic axis Takiyüddin: he made lots of scientific search but the most important ones about trigonometry he prapared a trigonomtry list and he explained: sinüs, cosinüs, tangant ve cotangant and he proved the theorems about these functions, he explained and proved the transactions decimalk fractions the firs europeen who found this 220 years later simon stevin in the years between 1548-1620) i can increase the exmaples, i mean muslims was developed between 800- and 1400 and europeens learned the shape of world from muslims while they were attacking muslims under the name crusaders i wanna make some self critism today muslims generraly dont search and some of them forgot the importance of science. quran writes " work for this world like you will never die and work for heaven like you will die tomorrow" but generrally muslims forgot this world, especially arabia must be more better than this but they forgot these all arabia has money because of petrol and visiters of hajj but they have no technology all they have 4x4 jeeps but they have no factory they arent producing they can be better than this they are rich they must be better and they must be example to follow but they are not now islam says science and technology is important but if most of the muslim countires are undeveloped is this the fault of islam? no on the other hand this world has a system that powerfull countries dont want others growth this is not only the fault of muslim countries and i am saying again it is mostly intested with muslims but this world has a big factor on these you are wrong at sheria rules i am recommanding you to read quran instead of judging it nobody killed by stonning while muhammed alive and turkey send a report to nigeria which prapared by muslim thelogians(professor) do you think you know quran and islam much than muslim theologians who are expert on their subjects? they made their doctorate they are teacher at universities!!! quran says nothing like stonning. in this world there is technology and there are prisons to give punishment is this fault of islam if some others misunderstand these all and if the others made a mistake? no!!! all these are mistakes, muhammed said "i will die but quran qith you everytimes read quran" if you read quran you can't see anything like your allegations theologians know quran better than you and Yasar Nuri Öztürk (a proffessor in istanbul universty in theology faculty ) wrote a book called : secularism(laicism) and islam read it please if you can islam is not opposite of secularism turkey is a great example of this 
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#2
24th June 2003, 23:31
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Hakancan its not by coincidence but rather by trial and error.
The universe is a chemical factory that produces all the necessary chemicals needed to produce life and life is a chemical reaction. During the formation of our solar system billions of planets came to being and through trial and error only a couple survived. All the chemicals needed for life could have came together not just on earth but other planets as well. But the planet with the enviroment most suitable for life will support life all other planets are either too hot or to cold and because of that the formation of life was not possible in other planets. It just so happened that earth was at the right distance from the sun and was the only planet that can support life awhile the others could not. You believe it is coincedently getting it right in one try but the reality is that it could have been billions of tries and got 1 right. ___________________________________________________________ But if everything has a cause and effect and the complex universe was designed by an intelligent being with a highly complex design then that intelligent highly complexed-designed being must have an intelligent designer with also a complex design. But you theist do not wish to accept such a thought and say that No one created god and that he always existed. But then if thats true then what caused him to exist? What caused him to be eternal? What caused him to be an exeption? If you are willing to believe in the complex explanation that gods create other gods then why not just a take the simpler explanation in the universe being eternal? Complexity evolves from simplicity and not from other complexity
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#3
24th June 2003, 23:33
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If god created the universe then what did he make it from?
Nothing? Do you honestly find it logical that existence can come from absolute non-existence? Nothing is a constants and nothing comes from nothing In order to have something you must allready have something to have something. Matter can not be created nor destroyed and only transformed.
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#4
25th June 2003, 18:11
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thanks for your scientific nonsenses
it is nice to see someone repliying here thank you!!! hey guy dont think only one side firstly the facts same for everything! think about it why only the mankind think? why a dog doesnt control you? why the mankind controlling the world? it must be the same for everything!!! what caused the mankind to be an exception?( think about it) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Matter can not be created or destroyed and only transformed. ----------------------------------------------------------------- your body will be transform to another circulation but what will happen to your soul(feelings,ideas, etc...) ? where will they go do you think? do you think will they destroy?remember this Matter can not be created nor destroyed or if they arent exist now how can you think or feel? ------------------------------------------------------- But then if thats true then what caused him to exist? What caused him to be eternal? What caused him to be an exeption? ------------------------------------------------------- god existed, god exist and god will exist and there is only one god and god has no smilar(son,daughter,wife,husband etc..) God set rules guy not mankind if mankind set it like this lifestyle everyone thinks its self-interests colonizing,exploiting,stealing,swearing,insulting are all good for one side and tragedy for other side God created world for indicate the conceptions like (goodness,evilness, etc..) God created both evilness and goodness so you can select one of them in your life and evilness created to show what goodness is and goodness crated to show what evillness is !!! nobody can create a thing without nothing but except god God made these all with his enternal power and may be it is not sensible for you but there are concrete examples to see this!!! accept or not your choice God never forced anybody to belive but in the other world you will take what you deserve not only you this is for everyone best regards
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#5
2nd July 2003, 01:54
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If you believe in a parallel universe then Dogs are dominating humans in that universe.
Mankind arent the only animals that can think There are plenty of animals that can think You seem to just be making comments about animals without even studying them. Monkeys are pretty good thinkers not as good as us but good thinkers none the less. Emotions and thoughts are the result of chemical reactions and the firing of neurons. They come to be once the neuron has traveled from point a to point b. It is not a physical thing but a matter of motion or chemicals that react within your endorphines. "Soul" is the early attempt to explain conciousness but without having the neurological knowledge the people that came up with the idea of a "Soul" took it to a higher level so it is qualified to be a word of its own. Conciousness is being awake during your life and being able to decide from right or wrong. Without conciousness it would very much be like having the mentallity of a 1 year old. Soul is consciousness that exceeds life and can do all sorts of other sh*t. "God existed, God exists and God always existed" I heard this one to many times And you seemed to dodge my question What caused God to exist? There must be a cause otherwise it is illogical What caused God to not have a cause? What caused God to be eternal? Sure its easy to say that God is eternal but then you dodge my question yet again. You could say God is eternal a million times and it still wont answer my question. Ultimately God is eternal because you believe it to be so You give your God any property you want Hell you could even dress God up to your fashion The bottom line its the work of your imagination. Well there is no hope for you, you've been brainwashed with religious propaganda to the point where you cant even think clearly. Only a religious person can truely believe in the fallacy of existence emerging from none existence. Its like saying 0+0=1 Some of the best mathmeticians came from the middle east now I cant see how it went from developing algebra to believing 0+0=1
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#7
2nd July 2003, 12:22
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Quote:
First, there is no God, Allah or any intelligent super entity that created us or the universe. So, there is nothing like a holy man, book, city or land. Muhammad was just another imitator of Abraham and Christ. Nowadays he would be in a mental institute or in prison. Universe is eternal and life came by chemical reaction, evolved into what we see and will eventually evolve into something that is beyond our imagination. If we are like we are it means we the best form to survive. Eyes are in our head because it is the best place to see an enemy coming or a prey we need for food. Second. Religion has nothing to do with a god but everything with power. It is used to control people and keep them in mental slavery and obedience. Not just Islam, all religions. That is why I have no respect for religions. Nowadays, Christianity and Judaism evolved into more less peaceful religions but Islam not (yet). Too many Muslims dream of an Islamic world and want to convert or kill every one who disagrees. I do NOT say ALL Muslims, but only TOO MUCH. Third. I have no hatred, only common sense. If 6 people are, after a shipwreck, on a raft in the middle of the ocean and one becomes crazy and endangers the life of the 5 others by his behavior, the five others have the duty to neutralize him in order to survive, if necessary, to kill him. And earth is a small raft in the middle of space...
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#8
2nd July 2003, 17:43
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may be a guy who forbid slavery,who treat equal,who forbid pressure, who set people free, can deserve being in a mental institute or in prison for you but not for me
a man who knows the shape of word who knows about the elements,who knows about the big bang in 7th century dont deserve it i think. at least you didnt insult this time thank you lol i dont agree with you about religion, let's not forget thinking is one type of worship in islam and dont forget this" god gave brain to use it not to carry it" so i dont think islam says people " believe what you heard" islam says "mankind is free nobody has to accept islam or god but they will get what they deserve" Muhammed didnt force anybody to accept islam.Muhammed bring peace to the land that he lived islam says "killing an innocent person is a situation like killing all humanity" so is this the fault of islam if some muslims want to do it? i dont think so if wanna blame atheism i can show lots of pervert atheists and also i know the start of atheism(if i am not mistaken) atheism oppose to a god who doesnt treat people equal who favour priest,who thinks ordinary people arent important also i am against to that type of god but there is no god like that god is the most equitable i answered your questions about islam above,so i wait the answers from you!!!! and finnally i wanna ask you something!!!i dont wanna make believe in something but wondering why dont you believe in god? becuase you cant see god. am i right?
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Shenlong
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#10
3rd July 2003, 08:15
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Quote:
Because there is not one proof that a God ever interfered in this world. I don't take the stories and fairy tales of Bible and Koran as evidences. Because the God figure responds to the psychological need of immature people for a father figure and what people can not have, they imagine. Because there is no the logic in the whole issue. The Koran says that we were created to worship God. WHy the hell should a God need us to worship him? Because he needs to be flattered? Why did he create diseases, pain and suffering? WHy he created evil? A perfect being would create a perfect universe, not the bunch of exploding rocks that are all around us (I mean stars). If there was a God, he would be evil, megalomaniac and sadist. But according your religion, he is perfect. How can you believe in such a God? The answer is that you were brainwashed from your birth till now and therefore you cannot imagine there is no God. They have blocked your brain by the menace that you will go to hell if you have doubts. You believe because you are too scared to do not.
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#11
5th July 2003, 04:48
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Re: Shenlong
Quote:
The real qustion here is why dont you believe in Zues, Isis, Odin, etc... You will say because they dont exist I will say "How can you tell?" You will say, "Because there is no proof supporting their existence" I will say, "Oh and there is proof for the existence of Allah? Then you will say, "Yes" Then you will give me a whole bunch of scientific facts from the Koran like the "Embryo Theory" Then I will give you a logical explanation for each and every one of them like how anybody who opens the womb of a woman while pregnant can know that an embryo looks like piece of chewed bubble gum. Why would they open when it is at embryotic stage? Maybe because it was bad timing or its all for the cause of of a saddistic experimentation all in the name of blasphemy. If it was the true word of "Allah" passing down embryotic information to humanity then dont you think the all knowing "Allah" would have chosen a better way of explaining birth other then "Chewed Substance"? and would have explained the whole sperm and egg process as well? Using the vocabulary of "Chewed Substance" to describe an embryo makes the "All Knowing" "Allah" sound like a he/she/it has the intelligence of a human being 2000 years ago. Ultimately, I will find a logical explanation to every "Scientific fact" in the bible and strip you from your "evidences" for the existence of "Allah" untill you have no more evidence to justify Allah's existence. Therefore making Allah just like Zues, Odin and all the other Gods. Then you will either awaken to reality or you will remain in denial. Then I will contend that we are both Atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. [Edited by Shenlong on 5th July 2003 at 05:25]
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#12
5th July 2003, 05:02
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Quote:
He is all loving everytime you watch the discovery channel shows a baby deer being torn into pieces by it's predator screaming in agony and having desire to live but knows his end is near awhile the baby's mother abandons the baby deer in hopes of her own survival - "All Loving" Indeed And there are different branches of Atheism just like there are different branches of Christianity and Islam. The above describes an emotional Atheist whereas the person had a misfortune occur to him/her such as a beloved family member dying from a disease or so and from that misfortune the person quickly realizes the God is cruel and such a God wouldnt do such a thing and God could not exist. Personally I am not that Atheist. I dont believe because it I dont have evidence and there are an infinite of other possible Gods that have not shown evidence for there existence. Without evidence its very hard to tell wich is divine and without evidence the possibility of a God existing over others is high improbable.
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#14
5th July 2003, 05:28
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Hakancan, the only way you might beat me at religious debate is if you pound me with Quantum Physics/Mechanics and Relativity.
Because it is there where you can find stronger and more logical proofs for the existence of God (Comparing to the ones you have now) But then again you think all science is "Nonesense" But then Rikbe might put up a good arguement Rikbe, Does Entropy justify God? Im having this debate else where and he pounded me with Quantum Physics/Mechanics and relativity (He has a major in those subjects) and I am still 15 so its kind of hard for me to understand QP, QM and Relativity. http://216.55.176.193/________._____...0&pagenumber=5  [Edited by Shenlong on 5th July 2003 at 05:46]
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