Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

Originally posted by khaled76
flybynight

Your feedback is really aprreciated...

And that faith thing, tell me if you need me to try something to prove it to you...

How do you say goodbye in your language?

Well if you manage to stay on this site, thats pretty good faith. You've got guts. BTW... Im from the states, but live in sweden. Sooooo its goodbye.

Originally posted by khaled76

Kinison, that was really funny. Didn't say that our societies are flawless, otherwise we wouldn't be human beings. It's that the rates are much less than in other societies and religion is helping in that, based on my logical appraoch. Don't deny that.....

much less, huh? hey why, dont you tell us about opium addiction, honor killings, and rape in the moslem world...oh, thats right, most of that stuff never ever gets reported, my bengali friend once told me about a peace corp worker in his town, she got raped, she went to report it to the police, the policeman raped her- was justice ever served on the two rapists? nope, she just got the hell out of there

Originally posted by theja
Gays persecuted in the US? Hahahaha.... now you're taking too much opium, Kinison.

wow, theja. where in my post did i make a case that gays are heavily persecuted? where?
i said- many christians blame 9-11 on atheists,...pagans..., and gays.
you've shown 2 things here:
1. you are obsessed with gay people
2. you go off on tangents to make non-issues in a discussion into an issue

Originally posted by theja
The most persecuted people worldwide today are Christians (many at the hands of the peaceful Muslims). Only someone in denial or in ignorance will disagree on this one. [/b]

so what? muslims say the same thing, which proves my previous statement to why islamic and christian communities are and always will be interlocked in a struggle for dominance. maybe we should just rename islam to denial and christianity to ignorance.

[Edited by kinison on 6th February 2004 at 16:50]

[theja]

Kinison -- you implied it, but I will accept your correction concerning gay persecution.

Richard Mouw is neither an evangelist nor a journalist. He is the President of Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, CA. About 4000 students from all over the world.

yes he is

Originally posted by kinison
much less, huh? hey why, dont you tell us about (3) opium addiction, (2) honor killings, and rape in the moslem world...(1) oh, thats right, most of that stuff never ever gets reported, my bengali friend once told me about a peace corp worker in his town, she got raped, she went to report it to the police, the policeman raped her- was justice ever served on the two rapists? nope, she just got the hell out of there [/b]

(1) Rape incident in Bangladesh


A- The Islamic world stretches from the Atlantic Ocean in the west to the Indonesian islands in the east, with millions of Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. They sum up to 1.2 billion individuals. So things would easily happen here and there.

B- Bangladesh is considered to be one of the poorest countries in the world, with a very high rate of the illiterate population being under the line of poverty. Corruption and black money are two major political factors there, used against either Muslims who don’t have connections, or minorities.

C- Prostitution was legalized in the year 2000 in Bangladesh. Human Rights Groups REJOICED over the decision.

http://www.islamonline.net/iol-engli...0/topnews8.asp

The same groups claim that rape crimes are taking place against religious minorities!! It could be right and it could be exaggerated as well.

D- However, legalizing prostitution has nothing to do with Islam, which shouldn’t be held accountable for what’s happening there because there is no Islamic law taking place. Otherwise, under the light of an Islamic law and by just reading what I’ve posted regarding slandering women that doesn’t involve any physical action (even if there are 3 witnesses, they have to get a forth), those rapists should be either killed (could be stoned to death), crucified, or hand and leg of the other side to be cut….tough, eyhhhh?

E- what was the religion of those rapists? And why didn’t that peace corps worker go to a higher level? She must be a UN staff or something.

F- what are the rape rates in Bangladesh? We don’t know yet. And there are many similar incidents in the west which are not reported, because some women are so fragile and sensitive about revealing such crimes sometimes.


From: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/p.../goldsmith.pdf

SEXUAL OFFENDERS
AND PORNOGRAPHY:
A CAUSAL CONNECTION?



“…..The problem with using reported rape rates alone has created a great deal of confusion researchers. Reported rape data, for example, are often used to deny any connection between pornography and rape. However, the reported rape rate is extremely low in Sweden, not because rape is rare but because the level of conviction is so low: in 1990 only 12.3 per cent of charged rapists were convicted. Not surprisingly, Swedish women are reluctant to pursue charges in the face of such a low likelihood of gaining a conviction. The statistical yearbook of Sweden for 1992 (325) reports a 34.9 per cent increase in rape from 1986 to 1990 (during a period when the population grew by 0.4 per cent). (For further discussion of Swedish and Danish data and detailed analysis of a number of critics of thecpornography-rape nexus, see Reisman 1992)….."


Kinison, if you want to compare between different civilizations, a fair comparison should take place when they are at the claimed peak of their intellectual and scientific output, and Bangladesh (nor other Muslim countries to be honest) represent the peak of an Islamic state as the case was with the Abbasids in Baghdad, The Islamic civilization in Andalusia (producing great thinkers and Muslim Jurists such as Ibn Rushd or Averroes), the Amawis in Damascus (which is full of culture and arts), and at the dawn of Islam in Al-Mudina Al-Munawwaruh the city of the prophet Mohammed –peace be upon him- and how the society at that time there has almost come the closest to utopia (which will never exist on earth by the way).

The western civilization is at its peak today (and I don’t think it’d go much farther). And according to your atheist tendencies, things is at its peak, since this civilization is practically secular and the only areas religions are practiced are in worshipping places, if any left for Christians in Sweden….whatever…

But you can still see, regardless of the progress reached, that there are high rates of rape, suicide, and other crimes in the west, which are the results of chauvinist driven psychological perversion rather than personal-based lustful cruelty as the case in Bangladesh.



From: http://wais.stanford.edu/Gender/gend...omen51501.html

The Status of Women


“…Hinting that Islam as such is more violent against women than Christianity as such is simply untrue. It is true that women are terribly opressed in islamic Afghanistan, but this has more to do with the Taliban power's misuse of religious dogma than with the religion itself. In Kenya, for instance, women are much freer -and suffer less violence and rape- in the islamic coast than in the Christian inland regions. And the law is theoretically the same in both regions. For one thing, Muslim women in Kenya are not forced to undergo clitoridectomy, whereas women in some animist and Christian tribes are….”

What to know more about Islam as a political system running a society from A-Z?

Read this fine article: Islam And Democracy: The Emerging Consensus

http://www.islamonline.net/english/C...rticle15.shtml




(2) Honor Killings

Thank you very much for bringing up this issue, as I was intending to comment on to Cowshoes, who his government takes Jordan as a main ally in the region.

The honor killings are social and tribal-invented rather than having got to do anything with Islam. As you can see from my previous post about Zina, again, the consequences of slandering women in Islam. The male family member is suspicious about his female family member behavior. Then he does what he does without even checking out about her status with a doctor or so. In Islam, this man should be no less than killed, and if his family denies such and act reasoning that what he’s done is out of honor, they are considered to be rebounded of Islam, so they should be punished as well.

The Jordanian government, which has made a peace convention with Israel not caring about what the Islamists think about that and considered to be an open minded one with its inclined towards the west King Abdullah and his father, are complacent with such criminal acts so as not lose those people’s support, denying any Islamic ruling on this.

Honor killings might be named differently in the west, such as jealousy driven, and many homicides involve men killing women...but nahhhh....they are civilized westreners yet!! Just Keep on rockin' in thr free world...

While in the era of the prophet PBUH, the hypocrites threw his wife Aisha with similar accusation, the prophet PBUH waited for a month without opening the subject with her, only saying to her as he entered their home: how are you today Aisha, but without much talking. She then felt sick and stayed at her parents’ house.

A month later, the revelation came to the prophet PBUH to pronounce her innocence. And you know what? He left those hypocrites alone though he could’ve slaughtered them one after another as his companions wanted to. He did that out of wisdom to propagate Islam rather the fulfilling a revengeful act that no one would have blamed him for doing, even nowadays.


(3) Opium Addiction

Where to be in particular if you can tell me? Drugs all over the world and are not only in the Muslim world. They are illegal in all Muslim countries, unlike some of your lovely countries. And Muslim jurists are the first to ban the use of drugs hundreds of years ago stating that it’s even worse than Alcohols (unlike all other religions: Alcohols are strongly prohibited in Islam, so drugs are as well):
Islam Prohibits Alcohol and Drugs

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=72331



Kinison, don’t just throw accusations aimlessly in the air……..


[Edited by khaled76 on 7th February 2004 at 08:39]

originally posted by khaled76
1) Rape incident in Bangladesh

A- The Islamic world stretches from the Atlantic Ocean in the west to the Indonesian islands in the east, with millions of Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. They sum up to 1.2 billion individuals. So things would easily happen here and there.

excuse #1

originally posted by khaled76
B- Bangladesh is considered to be one of the poorest countries in the world, with a very high rate of the illiterate population being under the line of poverty. Corruption and black money are two major political factors there, used against either Muslims who don’t have connections, or minorities.

excuse #2

originally posted by khaled76
C- Prostitution was legalized in the year 2000 in Bangladesh. Human Rights Groups REJOICED over the decision.

<http://www.islamonline.net/iol-english/dowalia/news-16-3-2000/topnews8.asp>

yet it fails to mention the names of the human rights groups, and yet it mentions these prostitutes had nowhere else to go(but we'll just blame western civilization for that, right?); what would happen to such women kicked out of the brothel district in an islamic society?(well i suppose we should just blame western civilization again)

originally posted by khaled76
The same groups claim that rape crimes are taking place against religious minorities!! It could be right and it could be exaggerated as well.

islamists have also bombed the places of worship of hindus, buddhists, and christians. now what a bengali hindu, buddhist, or christian has to do with the evils of western civilization, i dunno.

originally posted by khaled76
E- what was the religion of those rapists? And why didn’t that peace corps worker go to a higher level? She must be a UN staff or something.

first question- according to my friend they were muslim; second question- after being raped at the police station, where should she have gone? third question- ah i see, every peace corp worker is a u.n. backed zionist spy, right?

originally posted by khaled76
F- what are the rape rates in Bangladesh? We don’t know yet. And there are many similar incidents in the west which are not reported, because some women are so fragile and sensitive about revealing such crimes sometimes.

then how can you say that immorality is so much more lower under islam than in the west, when islamic states are so patriarchal that no woman would want to suffer the repurcussions of reporting a rape or other violence in the first place?

originally posted by khaled76
SEXUAL OFFENDERS
AND PORNOGRAPHY:
A CAUSAL CONNECTION?

true, there is a connection, but there is another study, i'll have to post a link later, that says more often than not sexual offenders tended to view a lot of pornography in adulthood after being raised in homes where sexuality was never discussed and being naked, even just for changing clothes, was considered to be disgusting, so it has more to do with than just porno

originally posted by khaled76
“…..The problem with using reported rape rates alone has created a great deal of confusion researchers. Reported rape data, for example, are often used to deny any connection between pornography and rape. However, the reported rape rate is extremely low in Sweden, not because rape is rare but because the level of conviction is so low: in 1990 only 12.3 per cent of charged rapists were convicted. Not surprisingly, Swedish women are reluctant to pursue charges in the face of such a low likelihood of gaining a conviction. The statistical yearbook of Sweden for 1992 (325) reports a 34.9 per cent increase in rape from 1986 to 1990 (during a period when the population grew by 0.4 per cent). (For further discussion of Swedish and Danish data and detailed analysis of a number of critics of thecpornography-rape nexus, see Reisman 1992)….."

heres another passing quote,

"The numbers quoted by Pipes and Hedegaard are truly correct; they were quoted in all major newspapers in February this year. They are police-statistics of REPORTED rapes in 2001. More detailed:

Denmark as a whole: 68 % non-danish rapists are Muslim

Greater Copenhagen: 76% " " " are Muslim

A grotesque overrepresentation: 7.4 % are foreigners. Half of these must be women or underaged. In other words: aprox: 3 % of the population is responsible for these crimes against Danish women.

In nearby Sweden it was worse, much worse: 2100 rapes in a year, reported. The un-reported is estimated to be 10 times more, i.e. 20.000. In a small population of 8.9 million people. They have taken more than double the immigrants than Denmark, and have risen from the lowest violent-crime country in the world, to US level in just 25 years.

Only in the last ten years crimes have risen by 30 % - especially against women."

originally posted by khaled76
The western civilization is at its peak today (and I don’t think it’d go much farther).

how do you know? even if you are getting direct horroscopes from 'allah' i'd still say you are full of it

originally posted by khaled76
And according to your atheist tendencies,

no, no, its deist tendencies... dee iss t ..... you know, you are the third fundy on this board to call me an atheistlaughable

originally posted by khaled76
But you can still see, regardless of the progress reached, that there are high rates of rape, suicide, and other crimes in the west,

but compared to the muslim world there is much more diversity in the west than there ever has been, especially in the cities...look throughout history - ports of trade dealing with many cultures and new ideas and you'll find much more unrest

originally posted by khaled76
which are the results of chauvinist driven psychological perversion rather than personal-based lustful cruelty as the case in Bangladesh.

oh, so, you are like sigourney weaver, corrupt states that profess islam are like weyland-yutani corp., and we in the west are the unremorsful alien threat...lol

originally posted by khaled76
“… For one thing, Muslim women in Kenya are not forced to undergo clitoridectomy, whereas women in some animist and Christian tribes are….”

D- However, legalizing prostitution has nothing to do with Islam, which shouldn’t be held accountable for what’s happening there because there is no Islamic law taking place.

you're contradicting yourself

originally posted by khaled76
(3) Opium Addiction

Where to be in particular if you can tell me?

heres just one link about the opium addiction in the city of bam:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in592059.shtml

"Farojpour said that among the many things disrupted by the quake was the supply of opium to the city's addicts. Before the temblor, an estimated 20 percent of people over the age of 15 in a population of 80,000 were believed to be addicted.

Methadone, codeine and sterile syringes were being given to drug addicts, Farojpour said."

put that in your hooka and smoke it

Originally posted by kinison

excuse #1

excuse #2

[/b]

And since when were reasoning and giving excuses prohibited in a discussion?

Originally posted by kinison
yet it fails to mention the names of the human rights groups, and yet it mentions these prostitutes had nowhere else to go(but we'll just blame western civilization for that, right?); what would happen to such women kicked out of the brothel district in an islamic society?(well i suppose we should just blame western civilization again).

What has giving those groups names got to do with it? and did I mention anything about western civilizations?? Kini, you've got an early paranoia symptoms: westreners are only normal humans beings who visit the toilet, and got a lot to dump there as in your case...

Originally posted by kinison
islamists have also bombed the places of worship of hindus, buddhists, and christians. now what a bengali hindu, buddhist, or christian has to do with the evils of western civilization, i dunno.

Paranoia again...

give me evidence on those bombings:

No wonder you can still see all churches and synagogues in Palestine (which is the birthplace of christianity), Iraq, Egypt, Syria that were found before Muslims conquering those countries...with followers of each religion...

Jews were living much more freely in those countries compared to the agony that their fellow-Jews found in Europe...check Jewish sources for that if you can't believe me...

And you are still feeding on those rivers of ignorance and Denial pouring in your rusty brain about what's going on in the world (Theja as well, who seems only wanting to belong to the groups being plotted against: either Africans or Christians, and she cannot say anything against white folks who taught christianity in the way she shows: christians were only created to be anguished by Muslims...get a life):

1- The Mosque that was turned into a Hindu temple in India
and how many people were killed then...as approved in the news...

2- Serbs throwing Muslims in tunnels so as to save themselves the burial time...shooting them, gang raping their women...and the approved stories are so many....where was your activism then?

3- Christian expeditions forcing people to convert in the Americas (and wherever else) by holding a cross in one hand and a sword in the ohter...while muslims conquered countries but didn't force anyone to convert by giving them the option to pay a reasonable tax (Jizyuh), while muslims were paying similar taxes as well (Zakat).

4- How did the Spanish courts treat muslims after regaining their authority on Iberia by killing or converting them, while what Muslims did there as they conquered the place(from a Jewish source BTW):

http://www.sephardicsages.org/hispania.html

“...It is a common misapprehension that the holy war meant that the Muslims gave their opponents a choice ‘between Islam and the sword’. This was sometimes the case, but only when the opponents were polytheist and idol-worshippers. For Jews, Christians, and other ‘People of the Book’…there was a third possibility, they might become a ‘protected group’, paying a tax or tribute to the Muslims but enjoying internal autonomy...” (Watt 144).

"..Hume wrote in his book “Spanish People”: “Side by side with the new rulers lived the Christians and Jews in peace. The latter rich with commerce and industry were content to let the memory of their oppression by the priest-ridden Goths sleep” (Hume 23)..."

The influence Islamic culture injected into Jewish life was significant. Jews accepted many customs and traditions of the Moors and interweaved them into their daily life. The Arabic language, instead of Spanish and Hebrew, was used for prayers

5- Crusaders who killed 70,000 muslims and jews in 1099 A.C., and how Saladdin cleared them from the Levant humanly while giving rights to native Christians and Jews living there, and those who wanted to stay.

Originally posted by kinison
first question- according to my friend they were muslim; second question- after being raped at the police station, where should she have gone? third question- ah i see, every peace corp worker is a u.n. backed zionist spy, right?

No comment....paranoia again...

Originally posted by kinison
then how can you say that immorality is so much more lower under islam than in the west, when islamic states are so patriarchal that no woman would want to suffer the repurcussions of reporting a rape or other violence in the first place?

Did you comprehend that? it was in Sweden not in Muslim countries, I was talking about western women rather..

In muslim countries, we still have strong family relations that I'm 27, my sister is 33, and we all live together in the same house with my mother, so everyone is aware about whatever happens, and ladies are much more protected in that way...

The majority of Muslim men are known to be very protective to their female family members, which makes them more respectful to other females (some could be real a-holes, I admit)...and don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that you guys don't have such thing...

Originally posted by kinison
true, there is a connection, but there is another study, i'll have to post a link later, that says more often than not sexual offenders tended to view a lot of pornography in adulthood after being raised in homes where sexuality was never discussed and being naked, even just for changing clothes, was considered to be disgusting, so it has more to do with than just porno?

whatever, the least that i could be concerned about is you getting naked in front of your mom and sister, or not...

Useless excuse: I wasn't talking about Porno in particular rather than the unreported rapes in SVeden...

Originally posted by kinison
heres another passing quote,

"The numbers quoted by Pipes and Hedegaard are truly correct; they were quoted in all major newspapers in February this year. They are police-statistics of REPORTED rapes in 2001. More detailed:

Denmark as a whole: 68 % non-danish rapists are Muslim

Greater Copenhagen: 76% " " " are Muslim

A grotesque overrepresentation: 7.4 % are foreigners. Half of these must be women or underaged. In other words: aprox: 3 % of the population is responsible for these crimes against Danish women.

In nearby Sweden it was worse, much worse: 2100 rapes in a year, reported. The un-reported is estimated to be 10 times more, i.e. 20.000. In a small population of 8.9 million people. They have taken more than double the immigrants than Denmark, and have risen from the lowest violent-crime country in the world, to US level in just 25 years.

Only in the last ten years crimes have risen by 30 % - especially against women."

That was defensive...hehe...I understand Kiniboy(son)...

So why not giving a link to this info?

Now why on earth would a poor emmigrant rape? does he want to be kicked out or something...It's possible, but what's more possible some Danish dudes are fed up with seeing women wearing Hijab (head cover) in their streets, as I've understood from a Danish colleague (I've got freinds too you know)..and the Muslim way of life doesn't fit within their high Danish moral standards that rejects that a woman keep to be a virgin until getting married...

Originally posted by kinison
how do you know? even if you are getting direct horroscopes from 'allah' i'd still say you are full of it

Just a feeling....there is something called intuition if you heard about...but all what's happenning around indicates so: Idiots running greatest powers in the world...I'm sure there are 1000s in the states who can run their country better than actors or oil-greased cowboys...

And following a historical pattern: that's the start of the fall, when people think that having power and science is the ultimate goal of living (it plays a factor though)...and when they start to think short-sightly and narrow-mindedly that they know better than Allah, while they still get runny stomachs and run to the toilet to fix that....

Originally posted by kinison
no, no, its deist tendencies... dee iss t ..... you know, you are the third fundy on this board to call me an atheistlaughable

Check out this Quranic verse thoroughly, and relate them to your, worse than a cow-like, self (amazingly you'll be disturbed: i'm not using them as a scriptural evidence, but rather as a real description of the situation you are in):

Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).(174)

Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by: so Satan followed him up, and he went astray.(175)

If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.(176)

Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.(Al-Aaraf: 177)

Whom Allah doth guide,- he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance,- such are the persons who perish.(178)

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).(179)

AND

://www.islamonline.net/surah/english/ayah.asp?hAyahID=43&hSurahID=23&hTranslator=&hType=1

Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?(Al-Furqan: 43)

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.(44)

Originally posted by kinison
but compared to the muslim world there is much more diversity in the west than there ever has been, especially in the cities...look throughout history - ports of trade dealing with many cultures and new ideas and you'll find much more unrest

being in a situation of unrest doesn't always indicate progress, check out Pharoahs and how they ended...or Persians or even Romans....

Baghdad, Damascus, and Andalusia were the scientific poles to the whole ancient world, and that the literatue was propagated to the dark, gloomy Europe then...I don't have to give names or should I?

I admit that human heritage is commulative and European cities are advanced intellectually and I'd learn a lot from, and I'd enjoy many of the sicences and arts created there, but this is not the end of the world to me...I humbly admit that there is a God who knows everything, while I have a very limited wisdom and knowledge...which guides me where to dig, and what to avoid..

I wonder how all those metaphysical icons have ended up with?? lost without a sole proof on what they say...

Originally posted by kinison
oh, so, you are like sigourney weaver, corrupt states that profess islam are like weyland-yutani corp., and we in the west are the unremorsful alien threat...lol

Weyland who??..

Originally posted by kinison
you're contradicting yourself

and how could that be? A woman should enjoy it as much as a man do, but both in the right way..

Originally posted by kinison
heres just one link about the opium addiction in the city of bam:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in592059.shtml

"Farojpour said that among the many things disrupted by the quake was the supply of opium to the city's addicts. Before the temblor, an estimated 20 percent of people over the age of 15 in a population of 80,000 were believed to be addicted.

Methadone, codeine and sterile syringes were being given to drug addicts, Farojpour said."

put that in your hooka and smoke it [/b]

I've never heard about a city named Bam until the earthquake took place...80,000??

Besides, though Iran has a shi'ite Islamic ruling, a lot of people there reject to adhere to Islamic rules, just as before what is called "The Islamic revolution in Iran". And Iran represents a reference to the Shi'a sector (15 to 20% of muslims)...

and if some muslims are behaving badly, that doesn't mean that Islam is wrong...whoever thinks drugs aren't prohibited is considered to be rebounded from the rulings of Islam...

So that's one city which is near Opium producing territories that represent the whole Muslim World?? Name another one...

Honestly Kinison, I wouldn't think that you'd be so defensive in your debates (not for an open-minded Nordic as i've thought so), giving a rare example here and there as a solid evidnce...and making a story out of that...

You aren't much different than Theja and you need to do much more reading about the subjects you want to discuss...

[Edited by khaled76 on 8th February 2004 at 17:09]

so, basically, the only responses i receive deal with your fecal obsession and accusing all the points i bring up as mere paranoia, hah!

originally posted by khaled76
And since when were reasoning and giving excuses prohibited in a discussion?

because of your absolutist theology, you create double standards; like when you said you cannot tie the prostitution court ruling in with islamic law in bangladesh, but then you did it to the christians who perform female circumcisions in africa

originally posted by khaled76
Paranoia again...

give me evidence on those bombings:

look, if you are too stupid to know whats been going on in indonesia, malaysia, the phillipines, or bangladesh within the last 4 years then your 'rusty brain' has been adhering to 'islamonline' for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long, either that or you have been living in a moslem country and have gotten used to no free-press

originally posted by khaled76
3- Christian expeditions forcing people to convert in the Americas (and wherever else) by holding a cross in one hand and a sword in the ohter...

“...It is a common misapprehension that the holy war meant that the Muslims gave their opponents a choice ‘between Islam and the sword’. This was sometimes the case, but only when the opponents were polytheist and idol-worshippers. For Jews, Christians, and other ‘People of the Book’…there was a third possibility, they might become a ‘protected group’, paying a tax or tribute to the Muslims but enjoying internal autonomy...” (Watt 144).

[chuckle] you slipped up again, the gracious saladdin would have done the same thing to the native americans...and its also funny whenever a poster like you talks about the tolerance of islam you never ever mention the humiliation of dhimmitude

originally posted by khaled76

Originally posted by kinison
first question- according to my friend they were muslim; second question- after being raped at the police station, where should she have gone? third question- ah i see, every peace corp worker is a u.n. backed zionist spy, right?

No comment....paranoia again...

then why does hitler's 'mein kampf' sell very well in the mid-east?

originally posted by khaled76

Originally posted by kinison
then how can you say that immorality is so much more lower under islam than in the west, when islamic states are so patriarchal that no woman would want to suffer the repurcussions of reporting a rape or other violence in the first place?

Did you comprehend that? it was in Sweden not in Muslim countries, I was talking about western women rather..

i comprehended it just fine, you didnt comprehend my question, either that or you are just avoiding it

originally posted by khaled76
The majority of Muslim men are known to be very protective to their female family members, which makes them more respectful to other females (some could be real a-holes, I admit)...and don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that you guys don't have such thing...

you've implied it many a time; we always get arrogant moslem posters, like you, who call all western women whores

originally posted by khaled76

Originally posted by kinison
true, there is a connection, but there is another study, i'll have to post a link later, that says more often than not sexual offenders tended to view a lot of pornography in adulthood after being raised in homes where sexuality was never discussed and being naked, even just for changing clothes, was considered to be disgusting, so it has more to do with than just porno

whatever, the least that i could be concerned about is you getting naked in front of your mom and sister, or not...

notice how you are the one who just sexualized this, i was talking about changing or taking a shower. tell us, just what kind of 'eye' do you keep on your sister? yikes! is all i have to say

originally posted by khaled76
Useless excuse: I wasn't talking about Porno in particular rather than the unreported rapes in SVeden...

So why not giving a link to this info?

since 'sveden' has taken in many immigrants as off late(especially from the mid-east) rapes have increased, as has all crime in sweden, in the last 25 years...and i can do better than a link, you can just go right to daniel pipes website and dispute the statistics

originally posted by khaled76
Now why on earth would a poor emmigrant rape?

i dunno, you would have to ask some of the moslem rape packs in australia or the 'tournantes' in france

originally posted by khaled76
and the Muslim way of life doesn't fit within their high Danish moral standards that rejects that a woman keep to be a virgin until getting married...

again, like in many of your posts(you seem to be really obsessed), you claim the west is just one big decadent orgy

originally posted by khaled76
Check out this Quranic verse thoroughly, and relate them to your, worse than a cow-like, self (amazingly you'll be disturbed: i'm not using them as a scriptural evidence, but rather as a real description of the situation you are in):

Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).(174)

Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by: so Satan followed him up, and he went astray.(175)

If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.(176)

Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.(Al-Aaraf: 177)

Whom Allah doth guide,- he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance,- such are the persons who perish.(178)

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).(179)


Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?(Al-Furqan: 43)

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.(44)

whoa! lol! 1 or 2 verses would have sufficed. so your whole debate comes down to calling me an infidel with meaningless verses from your 'korant'? roflmao! man, you are borderline psychotic...so which am i , a cow or a dog? pretty big talk coming from a ragheaded, camel humper.......now heres a quote from samuel clemens:

""Man is a Religious Animal. Man is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -- several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight."

originally posted by khaled76
being in a situation of unrest doesn't always indicate progress, check out Pharoahs and how they ended...or Persians or even Romans....

not to mention the caliphate

originally posted by khaled76
I've never heard about a city named Bam until the earthquake took place...80,000??

ah, yes, just another zionist conspiracy, eh? now who is paranoid? 80,000 by todays standard is a pretty small town, i'm not surpprised many have not heard of it

originally posted by khaled76
So that's one city which is near Opium producing territories that represent the whole Muslim World?? Name another one...

pakistan, afghanistan(in fact many taliban followers were opium addicts), and what it sounds like pretty much any 'stan', not to mention whatever you guys put in your hookas


gawd you are easy to dissect

Originally posted by kinison
gawd you are easy to dissect

By saying this, It doesn’t seem that I’m the one who’s been dissected. And you notice that as well (in case you didn’t) from the overuse of smileys

I think your goal from joining discussions is not purely to debate. You’d rather want to win a debate by any means rather than simply debating and understanding others.

And to support your way of thinking by not adhering to or respecting any religion (following what is said: Religion is the opium of the retarded nations), you have to give a better image of your philosophy. Otherwise, your way of thinking is useless and needs some revision.

You called Islam “Ignorance”, while you think that “hookah” is some sort of an Islamic tradition or even an Arabic word!! (Anything that affects the health is prohibited in Islam, even smoking water pipes or cigarettes):

None of the water pipes names (Shisha, Nargile, or hookah) is originally Arabic (either Persian, Turkish, or Indian). The Sikhs (a religious group) in the area of Punjab between India and Pakistan used Hookah (I just knew its meaning from your previous posts through a friend) and stuffed it with opium.

We usually use the word Shisha for water pipes in the Arab world, and it is used in some public cafes with ordinary Tobacco. It was known to the Persians and Turks first from India few centuries ago, and introduced later on to the Arab world (1800s).

Originally posted by kinison
because of your absolutist theology, you create double standards; like when you said you cannot tie the prostitution court ruling in with islamic law in bangladesh, but then you did it to the christians who perform female circumcisions in africa

Hmmmm …I wasn’t intending to highlight the female circumcisions issue in Africa (it’s an African ritual rather than a religious one, and it’s unfortunately performed in some parts of Sudan and Egypt). It just came with that paragraph indicating the difference in rape rates between the Christian and the Muslim parts in eastern Africa.

To add to this, it seems that Islam has liberated those people from such destructive rituals that would harm any female psychologically.

Originally posted by kinison
look, if you are too stupid to know whats been going on in indonesia, malaysia, the phillipines, or bangladesh within the last 4 years then your 'rusty brain' has been adhering to 'islamonline' for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long, either that or you have been living in a moslem country and have gotten used to no free-press

Did I use any “Islamonline” in my previous post? Besides, that site is really unbiased, check it once again.

Check their article regarding eastern Timor:

Australia’s September 11th:
The Future of Australian-Islamic South Asian Relations
http://www.islamonline.net/English/V...rticle12.shtml

Ok, Bali’s incident is the approved one that I totally reject. However, what happened in Bali was more of a retaliation act to the Australian involvement (America’s Sheriff in SE Aisa, yeeha) in Eastern Timor.

Bangladesh, Malaysia, and the Philippines: Nothing in particular there. What they want in the Philippines is nothing more than the eastern Timorians wanted: independence.

However, if you compare those incidents to a 100th of what happened in Bosnia, Kosovo, or even Iraq, you’ve got to be wasted.

Originally posted by kinison
[chuckle] you slipped up again, the gracious saladdin would have done the same thing to the native americans...and its also funny whenever a poster like you talks about the tolerance of islam you never ever mention the humiliation of dhimmitude

Oh did I?

1- Nope, Saladin liberated a Muslim country rather than taking the land from its native people, so his main goal was to liberate. And he treated his foes in a respectful manner unattended throughout history.

Here’s a review on a book titled: “Warriors of God” authored by an unbiased writer named James Reston, Jr….

Check “Amazon” for the book review:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

or Islamonline:

“http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle10.shtml


2- That was the writers view about the difference between the people of the book and others based on Qur’anic sources. However, his view isn’t fully approved because there weren’t any other than the people of the book in Iberia at that time.


The infidels that were highlighted in Qur’an to be fought are the Arabs of them who fought Muslims at the beginning. And when Muslims conquered other territories the treated all other religions just like they treated the people of the book, but wouldn’t eat their meat or marry their females. And the poor among them was even given part of the Islamic tax on Muslims only (zakat) as a welfare:

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=62238


”… “Verse 60 of surat 9 (At-Tawbah) does not confine the category of poor and needy to Muslims. Hence, it is evident that Zakah MAY BE GIVEN TO MUSLIM AS WELL AS NON-MUSLIM POOR AND NEEDY. As for the payment of Zakah to non-Muslim poor and needy, I have to add that I had in mind Christians and Jews and whoever we treat similarly such as Hindus and Zoroastrians (as the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said to treat them like the People of the Book) who live with Muslims peacefully. The permissibility is limited to this category…”


3- the attitude towards the Dhimmies was humanitarian, as from the prophet’s PBUH quote:

Do the Polytheists Qualify for Dhimmis Status?

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=84177

Throughout the history of Islam, non-Muslims have lived in peace along with Muslims under the ruling of the Islamic state. The blood of those non-Muslims is so sacred that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Anyone who kills a person from among the people with whom there is a treaty will not smell the fragrance of the Garden, although its fragrance reaches to a walking distance of forty years.” (Reported by al-Bukhari and others.)

He also said, “Anyone who kills a dhimmi will not smell the fragrance of the Garden.” (Reported by al-Nisa’i)

Scope of Amicable Dealings with Non-Muslims

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=50130

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) emphasized the duties of Muslims toward Dhimmies , threatening anyone who violates them with the wrath and punishment of Allah. He (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "He who hurts a Dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah." (Reported by At-Tabarani in Al-Awsat with good chain of narrators.)

He also says, "Whoever hurts a Dhimmi , I am his adversary, and I shall be an adversary to him on the Day of Resurrection." (Reported by Al-Khatib with authentic chain of narrations.)

"On the Day of Judgment I will dispute with anyone who oppresses a person from among the People of the Covenant, or infringes on his right, or puts a responsibility on him which is beyond his strength, or takes something from him against his will." (Reported by Abu Dawood.)[/b]

Originally posted by kinison

then why does hitler's 'mein kampf' sell very well in the mid-east?

I’ve never heard about such a book title and it’s sold nowhere in the middle-east (did Daniel Pipes say that?). the literature on the Jewish-Arabic conflict is abundant, and we don’t need to learn from Hitler how to treat others as the ideologies are totally different, and shown from the way we treated Jews either in Spain, Iraq, Syria, or Egypt (my aunts back in Basra in Iraq had Jewish friends coming and going from my grandfather’s house). And FYI:

Main Entry: Sem•ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

Arabs are the descendents of Prophet Abraham’s son Ishmael, the brother of Isaac, peace upon them all. And the Jewish influenced media (that’s true) might use the word anti-Semitism against Muslims to misguide the illiterate among westerners and others, though Arabs are hard core Semites.

Jews were the only Semites living in Europe before WWII, that’s why they were understood to be the only ones. And anti-Semitism is the word used for the mistreatment they had back in Europe, that’s why it adhered to them only and they can use it blindly.

Originally posted by kinison

then how can you say that immorality is so much more lower under islam than in the west, when islamic states are so patriarchal that no woman would want to suffer the repurcussions of reporting a rape or other violence in the first place?

Did you comprehend that? it was in Sweden not in Muslim countries, I was talking about western women rather..


i comprehended it just fine, you didn’t comprehend my question, either that or you are just avoiding it

I didn’t indicate that Muslim women wouldn’t like to report a rape, I used “women”.

For us, I’m not bragging or something; virginity is a crucial issue for a girl when getting married. So in case, Allah forbid, a rape crime occurred to her, she’d report it directly so as to prove her chasteness. And in our society as I’ve indicated previously, we live in families, and a single man living outside his family’s house within the same city is really rare. On the other hand, it’s so unlikely that for a woman to live by herself unless there is grave necessity to do that, and ladies would rather to stay together in such a case. So it’s really hard for a rape crime to take place (but it happens).

That’s why in other countries rape crimes aren’t reported easily, the women cannot prove whether it was a date or a rape.

Originally posted by kinison

you've implied it many a time; we always get arrogant moslem posters, like you, who call all western women whores

Come on man be serious?? Did I seem to come close to calling anybody so? I’ve known western girls and mingled with them…and I swear to God nothing but respectful words would I utter about them. And I’ve heard from western men talking about a western girl worst than I’d say.

But some other Muslims might do. The lifestyle however is somehow very unacceptable to us, for both men and women. Things like one night stands are really perverted to us, as if it’s like having a takeaway meal. The idea of both of them living together without getting married and the idea of they must have sex before commitment or even thinking of it is unjustified, and the high divorce rates in western countries approves my point of view. Some dress codes are explicit to our standards; though you can see some Muslim women adhere to such codes.

I’m sure that each man has some sort of protectiveness towards his female family members. And one of the main reasons I avoid having any unlawful physical relationship with another girl is that I don’t like someone to do the same with females related to me. And men in non-Muslim societies originally are the same, however, things get denied at some points because this thing has become more of a social ritual and a social debt, as I’d guess.

Originally posted by kinison
notice how you are the one who just sexualized this, i was talking about changing or taking a shower. tell us, just what kind of 'eye' do you keep on your sister? yikes! is all i have to say

Ok, I did somehow sexualize it...

However, when we change we do avoid seeing each naked. Even men aren’t allowed at all to change in front of each other totally in the nude…total nudeness after the age of puberty would be only between husband and wife or at the hospital for a reason.

And as kids grow older, a brother and siste