racist question?

[mooseboy84]

ok, i always wondered why some scandanvians have "slant" eyes or eyes that are horizontal like people of east asia.

now these people could have blue eyes and platinum blonde hair and look "white" or "aryan" [or whatever its called in swedish], yet still have slant eyes. not just people from finland, people from sweden and norway. i just kinda theorized that it was from snow and people having to squint because of the blinding reflections from the snow on the ice that made there eyes that way.

this was before i learned about the sami a few years ago. after learning about the sami, i checked on some of the sites about them and many of them had distinctive "slant" eyes. now many of sami people are what would be considered "white" from outward appearance, however they had the slant eyes. from my research, i learned that officaly in sweden that to be considered sami you must speak it.
however, i was wondering are the sami some other group of "eurasian" race. now officialy there are no races as by dna, however human construct has classfied people by race for the last 600 years.

also, something that makes me think, because several years ago before i learned about the sami, i remember watching a program about greenland. it was a doctor from greenland that served the people, and he made an interesting statement, reffering to "natives". now as i watched that program he had people in his office and some of them were "natives". while watching it i remember saying to myself that the "natives" looked just like eskimos from alaska and north canada. before that i opterated under the impression that iceland/greenland were uninhabbited.

i dont know exactly were im leading with this. i dont remember what my orignal question even was.

oh,ok. so why do scandanvians have "slant" eyes. now not all of you do, but enough do to make me wonder where it comes from?

[Mayweed]

Originally posted by mooseboy84
ok, i always wondered why some scandanvians have "slant" eyes or eyes that are horizontal like people of east asia.

now these people could have blue eyes and platinum blonde hair and look "white" or "aryan" [or whatever its called in swedish], yet still have slant eyes. not just people from finland, people from sweden and norway. i just kinda theorized that it was from snow and people having to squint because of the blinding reflections from the snow on the ice that made there eyes that way.

this was before i learned about the sami a few years ago. after learning about the sami, i checked on some of the sites about them and many of them had distinctive "slant" eyes. now many of sami people are what would be considered "white" from outward appearance, however they had the slant eyes. from my research, i learned that officaly in sweden that to be considered sami you must speak it.
however, i was wondering are the sami some other group of "eurasian" race. now officialy there are no races as by dna, however human construct has classfied people by race for the last 600 years.

also, something that makes me think, because several years ago before i learned about the sami, i remember watching a program about greenland. it was a doctor from greenland that served the people, and he made an interesting statement, reffering to "natives". now as i watched that program he had people in his office and some of them were "natives". while watching it i remember saying to myself that the "natives" looked just like eskimos from alaska and north canada. before that i opterated under the impression that iceland/greenland were uninhabbited.

i dont know exactly were im leading with this. i dont remember what my orignal question even was.

oh,ok. so why do scandanvians have "slant" eyes. now not all of you do, but enough do to make me wonder where it comes from?

Well, some scandinavians have slant eyes because they have sami origin for example, and some of northern fin origin.
It usually dates way back, but for some reason this facial feature seems to be very persistent
The slant eyes usually comes with high cheekbones as well.

You'll prolly find a lot of these features in people in northern Sweden, since it's quite possible those have ancestors amongst the Sami population or similar.
If one look at my family on my mothers side, we all have high cheekbones and a little slant eyes. And if you look at our family tree it ends up far north as far as it can be traced, in this case around 12-13'th century.

/ May

[mooseboy84]

i bet this has something to do with people insisting finland isnt part of scandaniva. from a linguistic analysis it isnt, but i think there are ethnic overtones as to why. thats why i asked in the post about finland not being considered part of scandanavia, because i heard or read somewhere that in norweigan finland is a derogatory word for sami, or something simmilar to that in tranlation.

http://www.sweden.com/forums/showthr...?threadid=7180

[Mayweed]

Originally posted by mooseboy84
i bet this has something to do with people insisting finland isnt part of scandaniva. from a linguistic analysis it isnt, but i think there are ethnic overtones as to why. thats why i asked in the post about finland not being considered part of scandanavia, because i heard or read somewhere that in norweigan finland is a derogatory word for sami, or something simmilar to that in tranlation.

http://www.sweden.com/forums/showthr...?threadid=7180

What has to do with Finland not being part of scandinavia? That some have slant eyes? *confused*
Skandinavien and Norden are two different things as Bosse said in that thread. Skandinavien is usually said to be Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and sometimes Finland is counted into that as well. Norden is Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland and Denmark incl Greenland and the faroe islands.
But when you translate Norden into english it becomes Scandinavia. That's prolly why there's some confusion.
The reason why Skandinavien usually doesn't include Finland is probably the same reason Bosse stated
while Scandinavia refers to the "central" countries, Denmark, Norway and Sweden and probably dates back to the 13th century Kalmar union between these three countries.

The Sami has always been a travelling people more or less and they're both in norway, finland and Sweden. Many Swedes/Scandinavians have sami origin (as I said) or finnish. If the family originates in the Northern parts of Sweden, you can almost be certain you'll find finnish ancestors.


/ May

[crankycrow]

The Asian features most likely come from an ancient connection to the Mongolian empire and parts of Siberia. You must remember that many tribes from South, East Europe and Asia wandered the continent during tribal times. In Greenland, you will find Inuit people as well.

I am part Finnish/Sami, Spanish and Philippino and I do not have slanted eyes even with Asian blood. Perhaps you can do some research into the ancient history of the Scandinavian countries.

Also I read that back in 10 AD, the original Sami people were discovered in Finland. At the time they were called Finns or Fens and were dark complicted. The Romans thought they traveled up to Finland from the Baltic region and represented one of the original Baltic tribes.

There are a few thousand Americans who claim to be of Sami origin. They live in Alaska, Canada and various parts of the US. I have yet to meet Sami-Americans to see if I resemble them in any way. It doesn't matter so much about physical appearance. What matters is what you feel in your heart.

I wish you the best on your quest for answers.

Cranky Crow

[bosse_s]

This may sound like I am a race biolgist or something, but I am not. I think though that the "looks" of many "native" people is quite similar, and you notice the same type of "look" in many Eastern European people - and in the Gipsies especially in eastern- and central Europe.

[Fredrik_S]

Originally posted by bosse_s
This may sound like I am a race biolgist or something, but I am not. I think though that the "looks" of many "native" people is quite similar, and you notice the same type of "look" in many Eastern European people - and in the Gipsies especially in eastern- and central Europe.

I agree with you!
I think that you can see a diffence between people in eastern Europe (slavic people), northern Europe (germanic people) and south-west Europe (roman people).
But as you mentioned about the Gypsies in eastern Europe there are of course different "tribes" or "natives" here and there, like the sami here in Scandinavia for instance.

I think it's kinda interesting... how could people living on the same continent end up with different looks?

Not strange at all!! If you follow any single culture around the world you will end up into a common origin. That's why ethnic purity is just a myth and you can find amazing word/matches into languages as differents as romance/latino and scandinavians

[Fredrik_S]

Originally posted by X
Not strange at all!! If you follow any single culture around the world you will end up into a common origin. That's why ethnic purity is just a myth and you can find amazing word/matches into languages as differents as romance/latino and scandinavians

But that is exactly why it's strange! Since we're all from the same place, originally. We (scandinavians) have a common origin with everyone else on this planet and, sure, asian people look a whole lot more different from scands, but for instance french or slovaks also look different. That's what I find interesting, coz when you think about it's not THAT many generations since we had that common origin!

[crankycrow]

I've been doing some research on Sami people and also the Finnish people since my father's side of my family is Finnish. What I've learned is that the Sami and Finnish languages are not related to any other language on the planet. No one knows where the Finnish or Sami tribe came from and I have not been able to find any creation myths or legends for the Sami or Finnish tribes. If anyone knows of creation myths for the Sami or Finnish, I would be happy to hear these myths.

In the US the Native Americans or American Indians have creation myths and although many of the tribes had never met when the myths (reality to them) were created, they are similar in origin. Navajo Indian chants and Sami yoiks are similar and so I have been doing research on these chants. Many indigenous people claim to have come from the stars and this might explain why they do not resemble other races or have dubious origins.

In Mali, the Dogon tribe claims to have come from the star Sirius thousands of years ago. Many people believe that the Incas, Mayans, Aztecs and Ancient Egyptians also came from the stars. The Sami speak of a home that exists beyond the sun or is it the stars and that is said to be their real home. So the conclusion that we need to consider is that perhaps not all races are human on this planet and that this is a good thing. But whether people come from the stars or from the earth it's best to celebrate diversity instead of seeing one race superior to the other. This is just something to consider with no proof to back up my theories.

And by the way, all cultures have creation myths whether they come from a religious text or have been passed down through oral tradition. But myth doesn't necessary imply that the stories aren't true.

[bosse_s]

Cranky cow, bot the Sami language and the Finnish language is related to Hungarian - they all belong to the Finnish-Ugrian language group.

The Hungarians have an answer (a myth if you will), why their linguistic brothers ended so far up north - and they in central Europe. The group came over the Karpatian (sp?) mountains - and was devided by those who could and couldn´t read: Those who knew how to read followed a sign that said something like "sunny and nice", while the other group couldn´t read went in the direction of "cold and gloomy"

[bosse_s]

And yes, the Estonian language should be added to the list of finnish-ugrian languages. So, a complete list would be:

Finnish
Sami
Estonian
Hungarian

[Didac]

The only internet service I pay for is Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service. I'm quoting them on the issue:

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"Finno-Ugric languages

group of languages constituting much the larger of the two branches of a more comprehensive grouping, the Uralic languages (q.v.). The Finno-Ugric languages are spoken by several million people distributed discontinuously over an area extending from Norway in the west to the Ob River region in Siberia and south to the lower Danube River in Europe. In this vast territory, the Finno-Ugric peoples constitute enclaves surrounded by speakers of Germanic, Slavic, Romanian, and Turkic languages.

The Ugric division of Finno-Ugric languages is composed of Hungarian and the Ob-Ugric languages Mansi (Vogul) and Khanty (Ostyak). The Finnic division of Finno-Ugric languages is composed of five groups. The Baltic-Finnic group consists of Finnish , Estonian , Karelian (including Olonets), Ludic, Veps, Ingrian, Livonian, and Votic . The Permic group consists of Komi (Zyryan), Permyak, and Udmurt (Votyak). The three remaining groups are the individual languages Mari (formerly Cheremis), Mordvin , and Sami (formerly Lapp). Mari and Mordvin, however, are frequently classified together as the Volga-Finnic group of languages. Also, because the dialects of Sami are almost mutually unintelligible, they are often classified as separate languages.

The vocabulary of the Finno-Ugric languages reflects a series of contacts with neighbouring non-Uralic peoples at different periods in history. Loanwords from Indo-Iranian seem to be the oldest. Finnish borrowed from Baltic languages in remote times and later from Germanic languages and Russian. Mari, Udmurt, and the Ob-Ugric languages are rich in Turkic loanwords. Hungarian has also borrowed at different times from several Turkic sources, as well as from Iranian, Slavic, German, Latin, and the Romance languages.

The phonologies of the modern Finno-Ugric languages show a variety of forms, and virtually no feature is common to the entire group. For example, vowel harmony (in which vowels are divided into two or three classes, usually a back, front, and neutral category that may not occur together in the same word), which is sometimes thought of as characteristic of Finno-Ugric, is not found in Sami, Khanty, or the Permic languages. Consonant gradation—an intricate alternation between two classes of stem consonants—occurs in Sami and the Baltic-Finnic languages. The usual method of marking grammatical categories in these languages is by the addition of suffixes. Some of the group (e.g., Finnish and Hungarian) make use of an elaborate case system. Sami and the Ob-Ugric languages mark dual number as well as singular and plural. "

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So Finnish and Sami do have some relatives. A European language that is more mysterious and have no relatives today is the Basque language, but that's another thread